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2018-11-21 19:24:31	EHG	so what should I put on my android now
2018-11-21 19:24:33	EHG	pixel 2
2018-11-21 19:25:20	EHG	can I build a rattlesnake with yubikey enforced out of box?
2018-11-21 19:25:29	EHG	paired to a specific key before build
2018-11-21 20:05:11	lrvick	no
2018-11-21 20:19:56	lrvick	AOSP has no yubikey 
2018-11-21 20:38:07	EHG	boo
2018-11-21 21:25:54	lrvick	I was up late last night researching exactly how to do that
2018-11-21 21:26:06	lrvick	I'll have to make a few patches to the AOSP chain and my build tools for it
2018-11-21 21:26:10	lrvick	but that is the plan
2018-11-21 21:41:40	EHG	:D
2018-11-21 21:50:17	lrvick	https://github.com/hashbang/os
2018-11-21 21:50:30	lrvick	making a push to that tonight that should yeild usable (but unsigned) images
2018-11-21 21:50:34	lrvick	need help testing
2018-11-21 21:50:52	lrvick	all hardware works except voice calls, and fix for that is on the way (googles fault)
2018-11-21 21:51:13	lrvick	next steps for me are working on yubikey based signing
2018-11-21 21:51:34	lrvick	then a system for automatically generating pull request for a new release
2018-11-21 21:51:47	lrvick	then automation for verifying a release reproducibly, then mergin git
2018-11-21 21:51:58	lrvick	from there... we are pretty much ready to go live
2018-11-21 21:53:15	EHG	very cool :D
2018-11-24 01:09:13	lrvick	I think we are ready for testing.
2018-11-24 01:09:28	lrvick	any volunteers with a pixel 3 or pixel 3 XL?
2018-11-24 01:09:42	lrvick	and a beefy desktop to run the docker builder
2018-11-24 02:01:36	lrvick	hmm. possible to build the kernel but no drivers work.
2018-11-24 02:01:41	lrvick	going to take some more investigation.
2018-11-25 01:29:45	EHG	dont have a pixel 3 yet D:
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2018-11-26 14:55:42	DSR	Hey there, just stumbled on #!OS, looks nice, anyone able to give some background?
2018-11-26 14:58:11	ryan	at this point it's mostly an attempt at a build system for AOSP
2018-11-26 14:58:27	ryan	end goal being `make flash` => verified AOSP on your device.
2018-11-26 15:05:08	DSR	The intention is to also provide factory images for download?
2018-11-26 15:09:15	ryan	eventually yes
2018-11-26 15:09:39	ryan	but it should go without saying that you shouldn't trust a random organization for your device
2018-11-26 15:09:55	ryan	which is why `make flash` should make *reproducible* AOSP builds, which is the hard part
2018-11-26 15:10:24	ryan	so you can then verify that *our* AOSP matches *your* AOSP, and then you can go write a blog post or something saying "hey this is some neat verifiable stuff"
2018-11-26 15:10:36	ryan	also helps to have a web of trust to verify everything
2018-11-26 15:10:38	DSR	I get you
2018-11-26 15:11:34	ryan	more importantly, we can publish AOSP builds and then if one of them is *bad*, you can say "hey this doesn't match up", but that's not as secure if you have auto-updating builds.
2018-11-26 15:15:31	DSR	IIRC not everything needed is reproducible though? Although maybe this has changed?
2018-11-26 15:17:09	ryan	unfortunately that is correct
2018-11-26 15:17:22	ryan	as of right now, most drivers, etc. are taken directly from vendors.
2018-11-26 15:17:47	ryan	but that said, as long as the vendor doesn't change things, we should still be able to reproduce the same image.
2018-11-26 15:27:03	DSR	So what are you folks thinking about this? Have a poke about and see how it goes, or a few of you somewhat committed to creating what will hopefully become an enduring project?
2018-11-26 15:27:52	ryan	lrvick's plans for it is hopefully long-term but it probably relies on a lot of vendor cooperation so we can build for as many devices as possible
2018-11-26 15:29:42	DSR	It is somewhat disappointing that the closest thing to aosp thats readily available is LineageOS
2018-11-26 15:31:40	DSR	Having proper builds of aosp    available for people without them necessarily having to work out the build process would be nice. 
2018-11-26 15:34:59	DSR	Not many devices are based on aosp though. Mainly its all from Code Aurora Forum
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2018-11-26 17:50:06	lrvick	LineageOS is a shit show security wise
2018-11-26 17:50:28	lrvick	I am developing #!os to address my needs in a maintainable way, and hoopefully those of others
2018-11-26 17:50:44	lrvick	staying in close touch with dan-v and strcat to try to get it right :)
2018-11-26 17:51:04	lrvick	signed builds for crosshatch are possible as of yesterday
2018-11-26 17:51:09	lrvick	testers needed :)
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2018-11-26 19:25:05	DSR	unfortunately I cant afford a Pixel 3 right now - looks like Google may release mid range pixel 3 phones with much the same hardware (inferior screen) 
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2018-11-26 19:39:19	lrvick	DSR: if you can afford any device supported by AOSP, adding support to the #!os build chain should be trivial
2018-11-26 19:39:39	lrvick	I added android-prepare-vendor last night, so all devices in the google AOSP tree are fair game.
2018-11-26 19:39:51	lrvick	personally I'll only be testing/supporting the pixel 3
2018-11-26 19:39:58	lrvick	but maintainers of other devices are welcome
2018-11-26 19:40:13	ryan	'google AOSP tree' ?
2018-11-26 19:41:35	lrvick	The google android open source project source code tree
2018-11-26 19:42:37	lrvick	Basically any of the devices listed here: https://source.android.com/setup/build/building-kernels
2018-11-26 19:42:49	lrvick	which are in-tree and should require no reverse engineering
2018-11-26 19:43:19	lrvick	though none of them can match the hardware security properties of the pixel 3 series
2018-11-26 19:43:23	lrvick	it set a new bar
2018-11-26 19:44:20	ryan	oh, that's disappointing
2018-11-26 19:44:28	ryan	no LG stuff :(
2018-11-26 19:44:37	ryan	well, that's me out, then
2018-11-26 19:45:23	lrvick	yeah I try to discourage people from buying devices that don't have source code. They typically get supported for a year by the carrier then abandoned.
2018-11-26 19:45:51	ryan	right my thought was that with lg having /other/ devices supported that this one wouldn't be fucked over
2018-11-26 19:45:55	lrvick	devices with source code however can be community maintained forever
2018-11-26 19:46:15	lrvick	only the devices by LG that google directly collaborated on have direct support.
2018-11-26 19:46:17	ryan	i'm actually kinda disappointed
2018-11-26 19:46:23	ryan	i -hate- the notch on the pixel 3
2018-11-26 19:46:26	ryan	absolutely despise it
2018-11-26 19:46:31	lrvick	you can turn it off
2018-11-26 19:46:34	lrvick	I hate it too
2018-11-26 19:46:44	ryan	can use it for target practice a mile away and you'd still have to *try* to miss
2018-11-26 19:46:59	lrvick	if you turn it off you end up with a phone with still less bezel than alternatives
2018-11-26 19:47:12	ryan	lg v40
2018-11-26 19:47:26	lrvick	I just leave the screen next to the bezel black and put my clock and notifications there and it is not noticable
2018-11-26 19:47:53	lrvick	ah yeah that is a pretty one
2018-11-26 19:47:54	ryan	the fact you can't get AOSP easily onto it sucks but the lg v40 is pretty decent
2018-11-26 19:48:06	ryan	it's like the pixel but doesn't suck
2018-11-26 19:48:11	lrvick	does it run PIE?
2018-11-26 19:48:15	lrvick	if so there might be a path
2018-11-26 19:48:25	lrvick	(android 9.0)
2018-11-26 19:49:29	ryan	i'll look
2018-11-26 19:49:35	ryan	can't find where it's said tho
2018-11-26 19:49:38	lrvick	all 9.0 devices are required to use a generic AOSP system image now and pass all tests.
2018-11-26 19:50:02	lrvick	which means all you should be missing are the vendor blobs (which you can extract from a factory restore image) and the device tree
2018-11-26 19:50:03	ryan	no
2018-11-26 19:50:06	ryan	ships with 8.1 oreo
2018-11-26 19:50:27	ryan	i won't be updating anytime soon though, still paying off my current phone
2018-11-26 19:50:36	ryan	maybe by the time i get a new one
2018-11-26 19:50:37	lrvick	well then they will be forced to overhaul their whole approach to play nice with AOSP to get 9.0 support per googles new requirements
2018-11-26 19:50:45	lrvick	which means they will probably never support 9.0
2018-11-26 19:50:50	ryan	nah
2018-11-26 19:50:53	lrvick	unless the community does it for them
2018-11-26 19:50:54	ryan	at least by v50
2018-11-26 19:51:01	ryan	which by my guess is <2 years away
2018-11-26 19:51:21	ryan	not sure what "innovation" will happen by then tho
2018-11-26 19:51:30	ryan	probably literally the only feature will be AOSP 9+
2018-11-26 19:52:05	lrvick	to get android certified for play store for 9.0 you must have a fully open source system image built from the AOSP tree, and be able to pass the 24 hour insane test suite.
2018-11-26 19:52:14	lrvick	to make sure every hardware and security feature works
2018-11-26 19:52:32	lrvick	if your hardware can't do that, then tough luck, you will never get updates again.
2018-11-26 19:52:48	ryan	there needs to be a real kicker to 9.1 or 10.0 to convince companies to update
2018-11-26 19:52:48	lrvick	they drew a hard line in the sand to stop fragmentation on android. it was the right call
2018-11-26 19:52:51	ryan	... like dark mode!
2018-11-26 19:52:57	ryan	it's only been DECADES.
2018-11-26 19:53:26	lrvick	I will accept #!os patches for dark mode
2018-11-26 19:54:30	DSR	IIRC there kind of is a dark mode built into aosp? somewhere in themeing nothing thats user facing though. 
2018-11-26 19:55:15	ryan	yeah the libraries for UI allow for theming
2018-11-26 19:55:26	ryan	the issue is that there's no global "enable" for most apps to go to dark mode
2018-11-26 19:55:33	ryan	most apps *have* a dark mode theme
2018-11-26 19:55:43	ryan	it's just that there's no OS-level support for on/off
2018-11-26 19:56:02	lrvick	should not be a difficult patch then
2018-11-26 19:56:19	lrvick	i am friends with multiple people on the android team too
2018-11-26 19:56:26	lrvick	can get it upstreamed ;)
2018-11-26 19:56:34	lrvick	that is the point of android being open source after all
2018-11-26 19:57:02	lrvick	the biggest changes #!os will ship with will be security related though. like strcats hardened memory allocator
2018-11-26 20:12:17	DSR	lrvick only Pixels then. For some reason I thought android one devices had aosp, but looks like I'm wrong. 
2018-11-26 20:14:48	DSR	The stuff about google forcing aosp compliance for 9 is interesting. Although I guess that doesnt mean that it'll necessarily easy to get aosp working.
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2018-11-26 23:13:24	lrvick	ryan: http://opensource.lge.com/osSch/list?types=ALL&search=V405
2018-11-26 23:13:44	lrvick	you may be in luck. They published their AOSP extensions
2018-11-26 23:13:53	lrvick	could diff it against real AOSP and provide a module
2018-11-26 23:14:09	lrvick	they published kernel sources too
2018-11-26 23:14:39	lrvick	I could generally walk you through it if you wanted to try
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2018-11-27 12:19:33	daurnimator	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsHtfLh6azw
2018-11-27 12:19:35	daurnimator	^ OS-able?
2018-11-27 19:11:19	lrvick	daurnimator: to potentially be supported we need a factory image to harvest vendor blobs from and a published kernel tree, and device tree.
2018-11-27 19:11:28	lrvick	also needs to be android 9.0+
2018-11-27 19:12:37	lrvick	LineageOS is garbagefire shit.
2018-11-27 19:12:48	lrvick	but they do gods work as far as reverse engineering
2018-11-27 19:13:08	lrvick	and we can steal device trees from them if the vendor didn't create any
2018-11-27 19:13:37	lrvick	daurnimator: If you want to buy a device i can walk you through how to add support
2018-11-27 19:13:48	lrvick	in fact I'll even make a doc on a general workflow to do that
2018-11-27 19:14:09	lrvick	you will need a beefy box to do lots of 20hr+ builds
2018-11-27 19:14:24	lrvick	I got someone to donate $1000/mo in donated digitalocean credits for this project
2018-11-27 19:14:33	lrvick	so we can have some beefy build instances
2018-11-27 19:15:04	lrvick	so hopefully that pans out
2018-11-27 19:16:11	lrvick	the bullet that is harder to dodge is running the CTS suite
2018-11-27 19:16:28	lrvick	lineageOS and others never bother to run the vendor test suite and they are buggy as shit.
2018-11-27 19:16:50	lrvick	the test suite will shake out any issues in the device that would prevent any app from running optimally
2018-11-27 19:16:55	lrvick	it takes like 20+ hours to run too.
2018-11-27 19:17:11	lrvick	Micay has been fighting with that on 9.0 atm
2018-11-27 19:19:52	lrvick	Here is his update from yesterday: https://gist.github.com/thestinger/4fbdce398e1f5d1bd129e25047e0a7e5
2018-11-27 19:21:00	lrvick	the most damning thing on the list: motherfucking google pulled U2F from chromium and put it into proprietary google play services.
2018-11-27 19:21:10	lrvick	so if you run AOSP you don't get U2F
2018-11-27 19:21:31	lrvick	we will need to patch chromium-android to use libu2f like desktop does.
2018-11-28 02:00:45	ryan	so it wasn't mentioned in here but if anyone needs server processing power for #!os we are capable of providing that now
2018-11-28 02:08:33	daurnimator	lrvick: my next device will probably be a sharp r2 compact
2018-11-28 02:09:34	daurnimator	my current device (samsung a3 2017) is not 9.0 :(
2018-11-28 02:13:22	ryan	i can see the v30 is 8.0 but don't see anything for 9.0 outside of possibly a couple of unannounced models?
2018-11-28 03:38:45	lrvick	Just spun up the instance
2018-11-28 03:39:09	lrvick	32 cores, 64gb ram, 400gb ssd
2018-11-28 03:39:12	lrvick	wheeee
2018-11-28 03:39:18	lrvick	don't need to build on my desktop anymore
2018-11-28 03:39:41	ryan	damn, nice
2018-11-28 03:58:26	lrvick	#!os is building on it now
2018-11-28 03:58:52	lrvick	watching htop is amazing now
2018-11-28 05:10:34	daurnimator	I'm inviting in CRC to here
2018-11-28 08:43:04	lrvick	CRC?
2018-11-28 08:43:32	lrvick	so yeah full end to end builds take about an hour on new box. Now to ruin that by adding chromium back in...
2018-11-28 08:43:59	ryan	don't suppose you're running this in tmux so we can take a look at the process?
2018-11-28 08:44:04	lrvick	sure
2018-11-28 08:44:37	ryan	of course for me it's nearly 3 am and i should sleep soon
2018-11-28 08:48:05	lrvick	ssh lrvick@142.93.18.199
2018-11-28 08:48:57	lrvick	97%. almost finished. 
2018-11-28 08:51:21	lrvick	I should stream it to twitch. lol
2018-11-28 08:51:35	lrvick	"twitch compiles android"
2018-11-28 08:51:37	lrvick	oh god
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2018-12-06 10:41:02	KellerKatze	Oops, looks like I accidentally dropped that channel
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2018-12-19 00:21:22	--	lrvick1 is now known as lrvick
