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2018-11-13 07:03:59	--	Topic for #! is "#! :: Thank you for flying Hashbang."
2018-11-13 07:03:59	--	Topic set by ryan on Fri, 09 Nov 2018 17:06:23
2018-11-13 07:03:59	--	Channel #!: 342 nicks (1 op, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 341 normals)
2018-11-13 07:04:01	--	Channel created on Fri, 09 Nov 2018 06:43:57
2018-11-13 07:04:22	Trangar	ryan: go to bed
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2018-11-13 07:09:13	--	You are now known as fosslinux
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2018-11-13 07:36:57	reynir	I need coffee, but I'm too sleepy to brew coffee because I haven
2018-11-13 07:37:00	reynir	t had coffee
2018-11-13 07:50:07	Moongoodnull{K}	uh-oh
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2018-11-13 08:36:28	KellerKatze	reynir: Do the coffee
2018-11-13 08:36:35	 *	KellerKatze is waking up to coffee and ASMR
2018-11-13 08:36:41	 *	KellerKatze needs to go though
2018-11-13 08:39:18	reynir	I made instant coffee so I can brew proper coffee soon
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2018-11-13 09:41:42	epicmorphism	reynir: bootstrapping!
2018-11-13 09:42:13	reynir	I have proper coffee now \o/
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2018-11-13 10:57:21	 *	KellerKatze yawns, stretches
2018-11-13 10:57:26	KellerKatze	reynir: You did good
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2018-11-13 11:40:31	reynir	Thank you
2018-11-13 12:14:02	napcae	I don't feel like beeing productive today
2018-11-13 12:23:52	reynir	quit your job
2018-11-13 12:23:59	reynir	be unproductive most days
2018-11-13 12:24:00	reynir	\o/
2018-11-13 12:47:54	seedbox	I dunno about you, but I like being paid...
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2018-11-13 12:58:35	slipxy	damn it benharri
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2018-11-13 13:19:37	napcae	seedbox: I agree here
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2018-11-13 15:03:03	benharri	slipxy: ?
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2018-11-13 17:03:03	minerobber[ca]	benharri: tilde.team seems to be down
2018-11-13 17:03:22	minerobber[ca]	I can't access any web things, and ping is showing 100% packet loss
2018-11-13 17:03:28	minerobber[ca]	just in case you didn't know
2018-11-13 17:03:31	benharri	oh i know
2018-11-13 17:03:39	benharri	fosslinux: 
2018-11-13 17:03:56	benharri	ran an nmap which is prohibited by the host
2018-11-13 17:04:04	benharri	so they locked the IP
2018-11-13 17:04:04	minerobber[ca]	ah
2018-11-13 17:04:06	ryan	rip
2018-11-13 17:04:08	KellerKatze	;_;
2018-11-13 17:04:14	minerobber[ca]	so are we ded forever?
2018-11-13 17:04:53	minerobber[ca]	or what?
2018-11-13 17:05:16	benharri	no, just need to get the ip unlocked. i contacted support and told them i've suspended the user
2018-11-13 17:05:34	benharri	the box is still up, just need the ip unlocked
2018-11-13 17:05:38	minerobber[ca]	ah
2018-11-13 17:06:04	minerobber[ca]	when we get the IP and box back, chmod a-x $(which nmap)
2018-11-13 17:06:16	minerobber[ca]	same with any tools that could get us blocked again
2018-11-13 17:06:18	benharri	if anything like this happens again, there is #tilde.team on freenode and #team on ~town's irc
2018-11-13 17:06:28	minerobber[ca]	hmm good to know
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2018-11-13 17:06:39	minerobber[ca]	I'll probably set cabox to autoconnect
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2018-11-13 17:06:55	benharri	idk what cabox is
2018-11-13 17:06:59	benharri	but ok
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2018-11-13 17:24:45	KellerKatze	minerobber[ny1]: Given that a user can just compile nmap, I'm not sure how useful it is to chmod it away (also, why chmod rather than uninstall?)
2018-11-13 17:30:20	ryan	benharri: could you put up iptables rules that would disallow the specific nmap operation?
2018-11-13 17:31:16	benharri	the command run was  nmap -v -sP 10.0.0.0/8
2018-11-13 17:31:31	benharri	yeah i'm looking into it
2018-11-13 17:43:08	KellerKatze	ryan: Given that running nmap as a user only uses connect(2) (or call the ping binary) I don't think you can filter that with ipfilter?
2018-11-13 17:44:00	benharri	yeah i'm not sure of a good way to do it
2018-11-13 17:44:49	benharri	and -sP only checks 80 and 443, so it's not something i can filter by port
2018-11-13 17:47:12	KellerKatze	benharri: -sP is just a ping scan, it shouldn't even probe ports 80 and 443
2018-11-13 17:47:33	benharri	not according to the man page
2018-11-13 17:48:11	benharri	-sP is deprecated in favor of -sn which is a delayed scan, doing 80 and 443 first, then coming back and rescanning any that responded
2018-11-13 17:52:18	ryan	> This option tells Nmap not to do a port scan after host discovery
2018-11-13 17:52:25	ryan	that is from -sn
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2018-11-13 17:54:06	benharri	oh not at all
2018-11-13 17:54:08	benharri	sorry, misread
2018-11-13 18:08:25	KellerKatze	No problem
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2018-11-13 19:57:04	fosslinux	everyone, i'm really sorry. i messed up, i didn't realise that nmap would lock it. i was a real idiot.
2018-11-13 19:58:33	fosslinux	(lock ~team that is)
2018-11-13 20:37:07	KellerKatze	fosslinux: Eh, you couldn't have known.  Out of curiosity, what did you expect pinging everything in 10/8 would do?
2018-11-13 20:59:55	fosslinux	i was trying to find the ~team address (in the local network) so i could ssh into it from my lxd container
2018-11-13 21:05:45	KellerKatze	Oops
2018-11-13 21:25:46	lrvick	hey guys. #!os boots and all hardware works
2018-11-13 21:26:12	lrvick	and should be deterministic. testing tonight
2018-11-13 21:27:16	lrvick	next steps will be to get CI to automatically build config.env files for each supported device, publish binaries, then sign the config files with the resulting binary hashes
2018-11-13 21:27:50	lrvick	then anyone can run our container in "validator" mode to reproduce the build and ensure it agrees with our hash
2018-11-13 21:47:14	MaxLeiter	whats #!os?
2018-11-13 21:56:15	KellerKatze	MaxLeiter: A minimal build of AOSP (the opensource bits of Android) plus what's needed to make it useable (F-Droid, ...) with a strong focus on security
2018-11-13 22:43:02	lrvick	google has no accountability for their android builds, and ships with backdoors and spyware.
2018-11-13 22:43:19	lrvick	we would just like to actually run android.
2018-11-13 22:43:22	lrvick	-just- android
2018-11-13 22:43:30	lrvick	turns out, this is a non trivial task
2018-11-13 22:43:48	lrvick	All Roms out there are #yolo unsigned and security shit shows
2018-11-13 22:43:59	lrvick	Android if built and signed as intended by google, actually is pretty secure
2018-11-13 22:44:14	lrvick	iOS OTOH has shit security but ships with a focus on privacy.
2018-11-13 22:44:25	lrvick	we should not have to choose between security and privacy
2018-11-13 22:44:57	lrvick	plus I have no choice. My personal threat model does not allow me to use stock google android.
2018-11-13 22:45:08	lrvick	so either I build a system to get updates, or I never get to have a phone
2018-11-13 22:56:52	stinethebean	lrvick: so you got the touchscreen, etc to work? 
2018-11-13 23:00:53	KellerKatze	stinethebean: No, it's very secure; no touchscreen, no PIN
2018-11-13 23:00:55	KellerKatze	>:3
2018-11-13 23:01:19	stinethebean	so secure you can't even use your own phone
2018-11-13 23:01:22	ryan	ah, right
2018-11-13 23:01:25	ryan	voice pin
2018-11-13 23:01:33	ryan	so no one can see you type it in
2018-11-13 23:01:37	ryan	just gotta hope they're all deaf
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2018-11-13 23:03:31	KellerKatze	stinethebean: Yeap  <3
2018-11-13 23:04:02	KellerKatze	ryan: No, microphone is physically disabled, lest the NSA listen to your conversations.
2018-11-13 23:04:43	ryan	you interface with it by checking all possible universes and waiting for bit rot to happen until you get the desired outcome?
2018-11-13 23:04:53	lrvick	stinethebean: yep!
2018-11-13 23:04:57	lrvick	stinethebean: got all hardware working last night
2018-11-13 23:05:26	lrvick	next is adding in fdroid/chromium, signing, and automation
2018-11-13 23:05:40	lrvick	then anyone will be able to use #!os on their phones, and get automatic updates
2018-11-13 23:06:00	lrvick	something it seems no rom ever manages to do. even major ones like paranoidandroid
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2018-11-13 23:07:23	DeviaVir	lrvick: the automatic update bit, or the working on every phone bit?
2018-11-13 23:07:40	DeviaVir	You'll just f-droid to install apps?
2018-11-13 23:07:49	DeviaVir	s/just/use
2018-11-13 23:08:46	benharri	~team is back up if anyone was curious -- fosslinux 
2018-11-13 23:09:22	KellerKatze	benharri: Yay!
2018-11-13 23:09:25	lrvick	DeviaVir: working for every phone is not possible. We will only be able to support devices AOSP supports unless someone feels like doing heroic reverse engineering for an obscure device they care about
2018-11-13 23:10:02	lrvick	DeviaVir: latest generation AOSP 9.0 devices only atm which are the first where binary blobs are released in such a way that makes clean deterministic builds possible
2018-11-13 23:10:20	lrvick	so pretty much Pixel 3 and Pixel 3 XL atm
2018-11-13 23:10:28	lrvick	other devices take a lot more work, which rattlesnakeos covers
2018-11-13 23:10:47	benharri	that was rather annoying. took most of services down for the day
2018-11-13 23:10:58	benharri	at least the ones i run for tildeverse.org
2018-11-13 23:11:08	lrvick	but I would rather not carry all that boilerplate weight and security compromises required to support legacy devices that are no longer manifactured 
2018-11-13 23:11:19	DeviaVir	lrvick: AOSP just jumps up latest pixel available every time?
2018-11-13 23:11:59	lrvick	DeviaVir: they maintain support for like the last 3 generation of devices. devices older than pixel 3 however you have to go extract all the binary blobs and driver .ko files from factory images yourself which is gross.
2018-11-13 23:12:10	lrvick	in pixel3 google released those as a standalone archive
2018-11-13 23:13:05	lrvick	without any of the gapps and other shit
2018-11-13 23:13:23	DeviaVir	I just got used to the 2XL 🤔
2018-11-13 23:13:25	lrvick	so google finally did the right thing here. What they didn't release were any scripts or methods to actually glue all thos together into a bootable image
2018-11-13 23:13:28	lrvick	that is what I did.
2018-11-13 23:13:58	DeviaVir	right, gotcha
2018-11-13 23:14:14	lrvick	for older devices there is a project callled android-prepare-vendor
2018-11-13 23:14:29	lrvick	which extracts all the binary blobs from factory images direct from google
2018-11-13 23:14:38	lrvick	it is a monster, but it is the only way to support older devices
2018-11-13 23:14:51	lrvick	but I have a pixel 3, so I am not personally interested in pursuing that
2018-11-13 23:14:55	ryan	so if you don't have a Google device you're screwed
2018-11-13 23:15:08	lrvick	instead I want to do what no other project has: distributed trust for android signed builds
2018-11-13 23:15:24	lrvick	once I have that working for one device, that sets the standard
2018-11-13 23:15:31	lrvick	we are security first, not compatibility.
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2018-11-14 00:31:22	ryan	well that was fun
2018-11-14 00:31:34	ryan	panicbit: definitely reproduced weechat crash locally, 2.2 -> 2.3
2018-11-14 00:34:10	fwiw	something happened?
2018-11-14 00:37:45	ryan	yeah i upgraded weechat
2018-11-14 00:37:56	ryan	couldn't reload the logger plugin so i lost a good chunk of logs
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2018-11-14 00:47:02	przemsiedl	exit
2018-11-14 01:01:28	mayli	can i use gnu stow to manage my .ssh/{authorized_keys, ssh_config}?
2018-11-14 01:01:59	panicbit	ryan: did you try any upgrades with prior versions?
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2018-11-14 01:02:09	panicbit	ryan: I've had that basically forever
2018-11-14 01:02:23	ryan	nope, older versions usually work fine
2018-11-14 01:02:53	ryan	mayli: in the sense that it's just a static file? sure
2018-11-14 01:03:00	ryan	but you can't do something like repetitious data
2018-11-14 01:03:09	panicbit	IIRC I've been trying to upgrade since 1.8 or so
2018-11-14 01:03:53	panicbit	probably 1.6
2018-11-14 01:03:59	panicbit	judging by the release dates
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2018-11-14 03:40:54	viaken	lrvick: At what point is this mobile security just self-flagellation because the radio firmware is a security shit show? https://boingboing.net/2013/11/13/your-smartphones-hidden-rad.html
2018-11-14 03:40:54	--	Notice([]): v​iaken: Title "Your smartphone's hidden, radio-controlling OS is totally insecure / Boing Boing" Shortened < https://is.gd/Lf3QYD >
2018-11-14 03:46:01	dgrove	This is fine https://imgur.com/a/T832BzP
2018-11-14 03:46:02	--	Notice([]): d​grove: Title "Imgur: The magic of the Internet" Shortened < https://is.gd/qxHPjv >
2018-11-14 03:49:26	dgrove	Somehow this little guy moved like 12ft https://imgur.com/a/Tn9X3hj
2018-11-14 03:49:27	--	Notice([]): d​grove: Title "Imgur: The magic of the Internet" Shortened < https://is.gd/FYlPiw >
2018-11-14 04:04:46	viaken	There's a place on my laptop where I can push it *just so* and it'll cause the graphics chip to freak out and the screen to flash random colors.
2018-11-14 04:52:06	lrvick	viaken: the radio firmware has no access to the system memory of the Linux-land on the phone
2018-11-14 04:52:12	lrvick	Isolated with an IOMMU
2018-11-14 04:52:22	lrvick	On really modern phones anyway
2018-11-14 04:52:28	lrvick	like pixel1+
2018-11-14 04:54:09	lrvick	Basically the same as if you put a 4G usb modem in your laptop
2018-11-14 04:54:30	lrvick	Traffic is TLS encrypted before the radio ever sees it
2018-11-14 04:55:17	lrvick	(This was very much not the case in most non-google pre-iommu phones)
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2018-11-14 06:06:10	viaken	gotcha
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2018-11-14 14:43:04	Moongoodnull{K}	lrvick o3o
2018-11-14 14:43:10	Moongoodnull{K}	I didn't know that was a thing!
2018-11-14 14:43:21	Moongoodnull{K}	/all/ phones need that :V
2018-11-14 14:44:59	viaken	Just made the switch over to Wayland. Seems snappier, and my battery life may have improved.
2018-11-14 14:45:46	trinary	viaken - Sway?
2018-11-14 14:45:51	viaken	Yep
2018-11-14 14:46:03	trinary	Did you try kitty or mpv?
2018-11-14 14:46:37	trinary	(Read: are you having problems with them too?)
2018-11-14 14:47:22	viaken	I'm using kitty right now.
2018-11-14 14:47:25	viaken	Let me check with mpv.
2018-11-14 14:47:35	trinary	With KITTY_ENABLE_WAYLAND?
2018-11-14 14:48:02	trinary	mpv works, but flickers infrequently
2018-11-14 14:48:20	viaken	My short test didn't see the flicker.
2018-11-14 14:48:43	trinary	kitty just doesn't start, complaining my OpenGL drivers are older than 3.3
2018-11-14 14:48:51	trinary	Which they should not be
2018-11-14 14:49:08	viaken	What do I set KITTY_ENABLE_WAYLAND to? Anything? I tried it with 1 and it worked.
2018-11-14 14:49:25	viaken	I've got an Intel GPU, so that may help me here.
2018-11-14 14:49:27	trinary	Yes, 1
2018-11-14 14:49:34	trinary	Intel here too
2018-11-14 14:50:01	trinary	And glxinfo says OpenGL core profile version string: 4.5 (Core Profile) Mesa 18.2.
2018-11-14 14:50:27	viaken	OpenGL core profile version string: 4.2 (Core Profile) Mesa 18.2.4
2018-11-14 14:50:56	trinary	Both are > 3.3 :/
2018-11-14 14:54:44	viaken	Maybe it'll resolve next update for you?
2018-11-14 14:54:49	viaken	Let me test suspend/resume
2018-11-14 14:56:24	trinary	I still have st, that's fine for now
2018-11-14 15:06:27	trinary	viaken - Are you using pass by any chance?
2018-11-14 15:11:58	viaken	Yup. Why?
2018-11-14 15:15:09	trinary	Have you figured out if it's possible to replace passmenu yet? I understand that sway doesn't support programs acting as keyboards, so I guess you'd just copy and paste things?
2018-11-14 15:21:13	trinary	Oh, and while we're at it... did you have to do anything special to have your gpg-agent work reliably?
2018-11-14 15:47:47	ryan	trinary: 'programs acting as keyboards' ?
2018-11-14 15:47:54	ryan	passmenu -should- copy it to clipboard, no?
2018-11-14 15:48:36	trinary	ryan - passmenu also takes --type, which uses xdotool to type the password directly
2018-11-14 15:48:48	ryan	oh
2018-11-14 15:48:58	ryan	well, replacement to passmenu => don't use --type :P
2018-11-14 15:49:15	ryan	but also it kinda makes sense that xdotool wouldn't work on waynotgonnaland
2018-11-14 15:49:49	trinary	:/
2018-11-14 15:50:18	Moongoodnull{K}	waywardfarmland
2018-11-14 15:52:20	ryan	kansas_irl
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2018-11-14 16:56:37	viaken	trinary: Dunno. Haven't figured all that out yet.
2018-11-14 16:58:28	trinary	Well, good luck. Things aren't as boring/stable as they used to be in X land ://
2018-11-14 16:58:55	trinary	E.g. Xwayland seems to spontaneously use a different scaling mode sometimes when sway is reloaded
2018-11-14 17:11:40	Moongoodnull{K}	zweiland
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2018-11-14 21:05:21	ryan	Google Home Hub: We took Android and removed the touchscreen, and are calling it a feature?
2018-11-14 21:13:49	rafasc	ryan: if it took courage to take the headphone out, imagine how courageous are google folks.
2018-11-14 21:13:54	rafasc	can't beat that logic.
2018-11-14 21:14:07	ryan	that's true
2018-11-14 21:14:16	ryan	apparently the "thing" now is removing features and products
2018-11-14 21:21:52	rafasc	Still disappointed how Nokia messed up the rebuttal of the 3310.
2018-11-14 21:22:01	viaken	ryan: Worse is better?
2018-11-14 21:22:12	ryan	apparently
2018-11-14 21:22:16	viaken	trinary: --type just worked for me.... Does that mean the target's running in Xwayland?
2018-11-14 21:22:22	viaken	Oh, right. Firefox.
2018-11-14 21:22:38	rafasc	if it was minimally decent, people would buy the shit out of it, based on nostalgia alone.
2018-11-14 21:23:00	viaken	Aw :( I was hoping it would be good.
2018-11-14 21:23:17	viaken	I loved the crap out of my 1100 a decade ago.
2018-11-14 21:23:20	trinary	viaken - I don't know :/
2018-11-14 21:23:53	viaken	trinary: FF doesn't support wayland yet. They're making good progress on the meta-bug, but it's still going to be a bit.
2018-11-14 21:31:53	dgrove	viaken: No wayland support at all?
2018-11-14 21:32:22	viaken	dgrove: There's some. There's an AUR package and I saw reports of it being glitchy, so I didn't try.
2018-11-14 21:32:32	viaken	Didn't want to add complication onto this Optimus mess. KISS initially.
2018-11-14 21:33:25	viaken	Much to my surprise, it went smoothly. I can pop over to another tty and nvidia-xrun if I need accel.
2018-11-14 21:58:32	dgrove	viaken: aur can be scary
2018-11-14 22:17:50	viaken	Ohhh shoot. Wayland just got binned, for me.
2018-11-14 22:17:56	viaken	I can't go without my middle click paste.
2018-11-14 22:18:24	ryan	isn't that a WM keybind?
2018-11-14 22:20:22	trinary	viaken - works here
2018-11-14 22:21:29	viaken	I don't actually know where in the stack that happens. It's an Xorg feature, I think.
2018-11-14 22:21:36	viaken	Normally, anyway.
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2018-11-14 22:27:33	viaken	https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/1012 - Big argument about it here
2018-11-14 22:27:34	--	Notice([]): v​iaken: Title "Primary clipboard doesn't work with pure Wayland · Issue #1012 · swaywm/sway · GitHub" Shortened < https://is.gd/G20YXn >
2018-11-14 22:29:30	viaken	Seems like they implemented it in the end, but it's not working for me.
2018-11-14 22:29:49	ryan	oh, fun, clipboard stuff
2018-11-14 23:11:51	tunas	Mir is superior.
2018-11-14 23:12:01	 *	tunas clenches buttcheeks to be /kicked
2018-11-14 23:25:13	dgrove	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVHcdgrqbHE
2018-11-14 23:25:13	--	Notice([]): d​grove: Title "Linux Sucks. Forever. - Filmed live at Linux Fest NW - April 28, 2018 - YouTube" Shortened < https://is.gd/Fuds5R >
2018-11-15 00:39:52	 *	tseng clings to X11/xmonad
2018-11-15 00:42:43	 *	Moongoodnull{K} replaces tseng's xmonad with xburrito
2018-11-15 00:44:12	tseng	no
2018-11-15 00:44:23	 *	tseng smax Moongoodnull{K}
2018-11-15 00:45:02	 *	Moongoodnull{K} replaces the smax with xmas snax. Festive! o3o
2018-11-15 00:46:11	tseng	le'ggo my xmonad
2018-11-15 00:46:50	tseng	i put a lot of work into that because i wanted a worthy successor to wmii and i3 sucks
2018-11-15 00:47:13	tseng	s/xmonad/xmonad.hs
2018-11-15 00:47:21	 *	Moongoodnull{K} replaces the wmii with wiimote >:D
2018-11-15 00:47:50	tseng	i do not appreciate your impish antics
2018-11-15 00:49:21	tseng	go, and sit in the corner for 5m
2018-11-15 00:49:31	 *	Moongoodnull{K} replaces tseng with ginseng. C:
2018-11-15 00:49:41	tseng	and no pudding for you today.
2018-11-15 00:54:27	viaken	https://lookingglassfactory.com/
2018-11-15 00:54:27	--	Notice([]): v​iaken: Shortened < https://is.gd/IE2D8e >
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2018-11-15 03:28:26	daurnimator	tseng: https://arcan-fe.com/
2018-11-15 03:28:26	--	Notice([]): d​aurnimator: Title "Arcan | IRC: #arcan @ chat.freenode.net" 
2018-11-15 03:36:33	tseng	daurnimator: sounds pretty ambitious
2018-11-15 03:36:46	daurnimator	tseng: it's going quite well
2018-11-15 03:40:01	tseng	that's good. the way it speaks of supporting multiple windowing system protocols vaguely reminds me of the old Sun NeWS/Xnews products
2018-11-15 03:41:54	tseng	Still, I'll be trying to give wayland/sway an honest go; but I really don't see myself dumping X11 anytime soon
2018-11-15 04:03:40	daurnimator	tseng: try arcan after the next release. it finally adds support for normal apps
2018-11-15 04:12:29	dgrove	KellerKatze: I saw you merged my PR, Did you deploy it? Do I need to deploy it? Can it be deployed?
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2018-11-15 09:00:04	Moongoodnull{K}	Oh, riiight, the deployment for dgrove, the deployment chosen specially to help dgrove, dgrove's deployment.
2018-11-15 09:00:09	Moongoodnull{K}	That deployment?
2018-11-15 09:01:25	dgrove	yes
2018-11-15 09:01:29	dgrove	that one Moongoodnull{K} 
2018-11-15 09:02:09	lrvick	your mom
2018-11-15 09:02:15	lrvick	SUCK IT HA HA HA HA
2018-11-15 09:02:21	lrvick	okaybye
2018-11-15 09:03:15	 *	Moongoodnull{K} gets down on its knees and looks up at lrvick?
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2018-11-15 09:08:49	tseng	lrvick: no u
2018-11-15 09:11:50	tseng	i still need to merge a PR of my own
2018-11-15 09:47:25	napcae	is anyone not annoyed that you have to bend backwards to get GO running with this stupid gopath fuckthing?
2018-11-15 09:48:51	fwiw	isn't the latest version not need gopath to run?
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2018-11-15 10:27:38	napcae	➤ go version                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              11:27:34
2018-11-15 10:27:44	napcae	go1.11.2 darwin/amd64
2018-11-15 10:28:01	napcae	fwiw: I've read that too but obviously this is not the case somehow
2018-11-15 10:29:31	napcae	ok I take it back - setting it up for a new project you don't need gopath. I'm working on another project though and it just fails to run/build
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2018-11-15 13:07:12	trinary	Hey sebboh, did you figure out your pinebook problems?
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2018-11-15 14:34:53	--	EpicKitty is now known as N1ckserv
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2018-11-15 15:00:31	KellerKatze	N1ckserv: N1cetry
2018-11-15 15:00:50	KellerKatze	dgrove: Which PR?  I don't recall merging one
2018-11-15 15:01:14	Moongoodnull{K}	remember, kids, always use /nickserv or /ns
2018-11-15 15:01:41	N1ckserv	;)
2018-11-15 15:03:30	KellerKatze	Moongoodnull{K}: /ns is aliased server-side to /msg NickServ usually (and the name Nickserv is protected by a Q-line, which is why EpicKitty's first attempt didn't work)
2018-11-15 15:04:30	Moongoodnull{K}	Exactly!
2018-11-15 15:13:25	N1ckserv	KellerKatze: I'm the reason it's protected ;)
2018-11-15 15:13:34	--	N1ckserv is now known as EpicKitty
2018-11-15 15:13:49	EpicKitty	Since a while back, my nick was actually NickServ
2018-11-15 15:14:32	KellerKatze	EpicKitty: I'm aware, I'm the one who noticed and added the Q-line  :P
2018-11-15 15:15:09	EpicKitty	:3
2018-11-15 15:15:22	EpicKitty	I'm glad I was able to point out the blatant security flaw
2018-11-15 15:15:41	EpicKitty	Also, it was nice to know everyone else spotted me and sent me rather comical nickserv commands
2018-11-15 15:17:44	KellerKatze	=^.^=
2018-11-15 15:18:17	KellerKatze	/msg NickServ IDENTIFY hunter02
2018-11-15 15:19:03	EpicKitty	I got that one
2018-11-15 15:19:49	KellerKatze	^^
2018-11-15 15:20:25	EpicKitty	I beleve it was polprog who did that
2018-11-15 15:20:38	EpicKitty	So either, that's their password or they're good at joking around
2018-11-15 15:21:34	rafasc	EpicKitty: I wonder if I leaked my password, as I tried to register my nickname here before.
2018-11-15 15:22:00	EpicKitty	I've no message from you so no idea
2018-11-15 15:22:18	EpicKitty	I recieved no real passwords during the experiment
2018-11-15 15:22:27	EpicKitty	But if I was to, I would have wiped the log files
2018-11-15 15:23:11	KellerKatze	dgrove: If you were talking about the board-members-email branch, it looks like there are 2 commits in it, for some reason, and that you accidentally pushed the first one to master; definitely not a merge
2018-11-15 15:23:16	rafasc	If I did, you can keep it.. I don't reuse passwords so I am not worried.
2018-11-15 15:24:06	rafasc	I also did something weird in the past that resulted in ryan getting some help messages, but no idea what it triggered.
2018-11-15 15:24:30	polprog	lol
2018-11-15 15:24:50	polprog	i have no recollection of such events, EpicKitty :^)
2018-11-15 15:25:00	EpicKitty	Oh? Want the logs for it? :P
2018-11-15 15:27:02	polprog	shhh :x
2018-11-15 15:28:33	--	Notice(github): [admin-tools] KellerFuchs force-pushed board-members-email from 4d2023a to 99f4b2e: https://git.io/fpGIX
2018-11-15 15:28:33	--	Notice(github): admin-tools/board-members-email 3ae0adf The Fox in the Shell: Revert "Add board members email alias"...
2018-11-15 15:28:33	--	Notice(github): admin-tools/board-members-email 7c19182 Danny Grove: Add board@ alias, add missing emails for board members
2018-11-15 15:28:33	--	Notice(github): admin-tools/board-members-email 99f4b2e Danny Grove: Remove data safety wrappers as we want scripts to break it they're wrong
2018-11-15 15:30:55	--	Notice(github): [admin-tools] KellerFuchs fast-forwarded master from 8e2f92e to 3ae0adf: https://git.io/fpGIN
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2018-11-15 17:25:19	dgrove	meta.sr.ht
2018-11-15 17:25:25	dgrove	This is pretty neat
2018-11-15 17:43:01	viaken	Interesting
2018-11-15 17:45:41	viaken	https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/?search=sr.ht - lol
2018-11-15 17:45:42	--	Notice([]): v​iaken: Title "git.sr.ht" Shortened < https://is.gd/9JPe1P >
2018-11-15 17:46:01	viaken	(It's a 502 error, for the record)
2018-11-15 18:03:29	benharri	#sr.ht on freenode is the irc channel
2018-11-15 18:03:44	benharri	he says it's a memory leak unrelated to the hn traffic influx
2018-11-15 18:12:48	viaken	Fair enough
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2018-11-15 19:47:06	bgiannan	seems great but it almost not usable
2018-11-15 19:47:17	bgiannan	must be under heavy load because of the HN post
2018-11-15 19:54:40	lrvick	oh my god. 
2018-11-15 20:14:43	KellerKatze	lrvick: Yes?
2018-11-15 20:14:46	KellerKatze	O:3
2018-11-15 20:14:56	KellerKatze	(Goddess would be more appropriate, though)
2018-11-15 20:25:03	dch	st.ht is cool innit
2018-11-15 20:25:19	dch	might start using it, needed an excuse to be able to put git on my cv
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2018-11-15 21:06:55	sebboh	trinary: yes and no.  What I learned is that A) allwinner is not great and B) there's something called a BSP kernel.. it's version 3.10, very hacky.. this is what my OS image has. Meanwhile, there are efforts to make mainline run on this unit and progress is good.  I think I'm going to go with mainline, because it's not like the BSP one works well!
2018-11-15 21:07:26	trinary	sebboh - Have you tried the arch image? It feels much better
2018-11-15 21:07:40	trinary	I don't know why they chose this kde monster
2018-11-15 21:08:41	sebboh	wait, maybe the kde thing *is* based on mainline, but the version I have is months old.  I forget.  Honestly my major blocker is that I was not prepared to drop anything when the unit arrived.
2018-11-15 21:09:08	sebboh	Tonight I will be painting my in-law's bedroom walls instead of tapping on the little ARM box.
2018-11-15 21:09:57	sebboh	KellerKatze: you contributed to autojoin.py for weechat and the version I just pulled in has your contributions.  Good work!
2018-11-15 21:11:04	trinary	sebboh - No, the preinstalled things is BSP/3.10
2018-11-15 21:13:26	sebboh	I almost feel bad for that Sir Hat person.. the sorts of communities that are interested in his 100% opensource suite of tools are not likely to subscribe much.  but like... he's gotta know that.  He deliberately chose to publish it all.  He must want us all to run clones.  It would be neat if, after some evolution, PRs flow between instances... :) mmm
2018-11-15 21:13:31	sebboh	trinary: ok
2018-11-15 21:14:30	benharri	sebboh: sr.ht doesn't have a notion of PRs. just use git-send-email(1)
2018-11-15 21:14:37	benharri	send it wherever you need
2018-11-15 21:14:41	KellerKatze	sebboh: Thanks  <3
2018-11-15 21:14:44	benharri	federation by email
2018-11-15 21:15:25	sebboh	benharri: give it time.  From my point of view, sr.ht came out of nowhere and *started* a couple points up on gitlab.
2018-11-15 21:15:35	sebboh	also email rocks.
2018-11-15 21:15:40	benharri	give it time to do what?
2018-11-15 21:15:57	sebboh	to get new features.
2018-11-15 21:16:00	benharri	oh yeah it will
2018-11-15 21:16:03	sebboh	:)
2018-11-15 21:16:37	benharri	ddevault said that the web ui will be similar to a git{hu,la}b PR but powered by email
2018-11-15 21:17:29	sebboh	maybe I will learn how to do that.  It's been working for linus et all for a while eh?
2018-11-15 21:22:28	benharri	oh yeah, that's how kernel dev is done
2018-11-15 21:22:37	benharri	pet project on git.sr.ht?
2018-11-15 21:38:05	mayli	got an account, not money for extra :/
2018-11-15 21:38:43	fwiw	not money?
2018-11-15 21:40:58	mayli	so, how can i change my passwd on .sr.ht?
2018-11-15 21:41:08	mayli	s/not/no/g
2018-11-15 21:49:05	mayli	the sr.ht is so slow
2018-11-15 21:49:53	benharri	it's been relatively fast for me except git.sr.ht
2018-11-15 21:50:04	benharri	which crashes once in a whle
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2018-11-15 22:21:49	mayli	git.sr.ht is the core of this service right?
2018-11-15 22:21:58	mayli	git push/pull are really slow right now
2018-11-15 22:23:48	fwiw	I'm assumming HN traffic
2018-11-15 22:24:25	mayli	$ time git push
2018-11-15 22:24:27	mayli	Everything up-to-date
2018-11-15 22:24:29	mayli	real    0m8.341s
2018-11-15 22:49:17	sebboh	yeah it's being hugged.  But the folks behind it are pretty bright near as I can tell.  I don't expect it to be slow tomorrow, even if it is still being hugged.
2018-11-15 23:13:13	fwiw	someone on hn sugesting turning sr.ht into an SPA
2018-11-15 23:16:45	sebboh	What's the difference, really, other than some screen flicker?
2018-11-15 23:18:04	benharri	y tho
2018-11-15 23:18:51	fwiw	> SPA are great because they feel instant, [...]
2018-11-15 23:18:55	fwiw	um... how about no
2018-11-15 23:19:39	fwiw	Twitter, Youtube, Patreon, feels sluggish to me
2018-11-15 23:21:43	sebboh	most apps written for the 6502 family of CPUs feel instant.
2018-11-15 23:21:59	fwiw	:)
2018-11-15 23:22:05	sebboh	:)
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2018-11-15 23:27:50	dch	Do we still have @hashbang.sh e-mail addresses? 
2018-11-15 23:29:06	benharri	dch: yes
2018-11-15 23:33:33	dch	_Awesome_
2018-11-15 23:44:27	dch	...I just ran a wrong chmod command and now don't own anything in my home directory
2018-11-15 23:45:43	dch	aaand fixed. As far as I can tell
2018-11-15 23:45:45	dch	weird.
2018-11-16 00:21:26	sebboh	so... unless you are root or something, I don't think that's what happened.  You said 'weird', did it turn out to be something else?
2018-11-16 00:22:36	sebboh	oh, der, chmod. :) you still owned the things, just didn't have perms on them. :) should be easy to fix 'cause you'll not be able to change your actual ~ dir and it will have perms that allow you to change perms of its children. :)
2018-11-16 00:23:18	sebboh	s/should be/yep,/
2018-11-16 03:49:09	viaken	KellerKatze: Wait, you did autojoin.py? I use it, too! Thanks! :D
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2018-11-16 05:26:47	mlyons	I haven't used IRC since 2005. And never on the CLI.
2018-11-16 05:27:47	mlyons	Thanks to Mozilla for the GUI. =)
2018-11-16 05:27:55	benharri	weechat is so nice
2018-11-16 05:34:31	daurnimator	ehhhhhh
2018-11-16 05:34:41	daurnimator	I made the change to weechat after everyone talked it up
2018-11-16 05:34:46	daurnimator	I wish I was still a irssi user....
2018-11-16 05:35:43	slipxy	you dont mean that
2018-11-16 05:36:55	benharri	irssi is totally fine
2018-11-16 05:58:05	mlyons	okay, real question: can #! be used as a git remote?
2018-11-16 05:58:31	benharri	if you do git init --bare
2018-11-16 06:00:04	mlyons	right, I have made a bare repo before, but only on a local system.
2018-11-16 06:01:02	benharri	on #!: mkdir proj; cd proj; git init --bare
2018-11-16 06:01:04	mlyons	And all of the remotes I've used use `git@example.com` rather than `user_foo@example.com` for ssh
2018-11-16 06:01:23	benharri	locally: git clone user@<host>.hashbang.sh:proj
2018-11-16 06:01:58	benharri	where host is one of {sf,da,to,ny}1
2018-11-16 06:02:07	mlyons	ah, okay. so sign in as me. thanks.
2018-11-16 06:02:48	mlyons	I did used to wonder how git@ sorted out whose ssh key was whose and pointed them to the right place.
2018-11-16 06:04:31	benharri	git@ usually implies that there's some kind of other process on that end that is going to be handling permissions
2018-11-16 06:07:33	mlyons	:thumbup:
2018-11-16 06:08:02	benharri	something like gitolite, gogs, or gitea, or gitlab
2018-11-16 06:08:16	benharri	otherwise it's up to you to set proper permissions
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2018-11-16 06:50:10	tseng	booooo
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2018-11-16 14:46:27	KellerKatze	Wow, nice: 10oclockdot.tumblr.com/post/145453478037/
2018-11-16 14:46:27	--	Notice([]): K​ellerKatze: Shortened < https://is.gd/NLq61l >
2018-11-16 14:46:46	KellerKatze	> Saying that man and woman are the only genders is actually LESS nuanced than saying that earth, water, air, and fire are the only elements.
2018-11-16 14:48:09	Moongoodnull{K}	Except that there's a reasonable definition of /elements/ as that enumeration of four.
2018-11-16 14:55:21	KellerKatze	Moongoodnull{K}: Did you read through the link?  'cause the whole point was that, from a statistical perspective, gender binary is even less accurate as a model of gender, than middle ages elementalism as a model of chemistry.
2018-11-16 14:56:39	KellerKatze	On second read, I'm not too taken by the “science vs humanities” dualism in there, esp. since gender studies are usually social sciences (so, SCIENCE!)
2018-11-16 14:57:23	Moongoodnull{K}	The implication in what I said is that there /isn't/ a reasonable definition of gender as the other enumeration of two. :p
2018-11-16 14:57:43	KellerKatze	Oh, sorry
2018-11-16 14:57:54	 *	KellerKatze is clearly under-caffeinated
2018-11-16 14:58:08	 *	Moongoodnull{K} prepares KellerKatzeKoffee?
2018-11-16 14:58:43	KellerKatze	I was going to go with some yerba mate soda, so the caffeine boost helps me bootstrap to being awake enough to make coffee
2018-11-16 14:58:56	KellerKatze	but thanks, I wouldn't mind a Moongoodnull{K} making me coffee
2018-11-16 14:59:16	Moongoodnull{K}	heheh
2018-11-16 15:46:03	dch	KellerKatze: The argument is regularly made that "social sciences" are not science. 
2018-11-16 15:46:34	dch	Or at least, not the same kind of science as biology, physics, etc.
2018-11-16 15:50:53	KellerKatze	dch: There is definitely a somewhat-useful distinction between the “natural sciences” (is computer science “natural”?  >:3) and social sciences, though it's also very artificial
2018-11-16 15:51:09	Moongoodnull{K}	It's just applied psychology, which is just applied biology!
2018-11-16 15:51:53	KellerKatze	My issue is with rejecting them as science altogether, or implying that they are less worthy
2018-11-16 15:52:22	dch	I am of no opinion either way.
2018-11-16 15:52:54	KellerKatze	FYI, I am a computer scientist and/or mathematician, so I def. experienced the flip side of that, were colleagues and so on would look down on “dirty”, “impure” sciences
2018-11-16 15:53:00	KellerKatze	which is super dumb
2018-11-16 15:53:02	Moongoodnull{K}	dch: https://youtu.be/ussCHoQttyQ
2018-11-16 15:53:03	--	Notice([]): M​oongoodnull{K}: Title "Neutral Response - YouTube" Shortened < https://is.gd/WTxdpr >
2018-11-16 15:53:55	KellerKatze	esp. since most of them weren't even checking whether their research reflects reality (i.e. doing “pure” theory, which is kinda anathema to the scientific method)
2018-11-16 15:55:05	dch	Moongoodnull{K}: A philosophy to live one's life by.
2018-11-16 15:55:07	KellerKatze	I mean, I understand that there is some preexisting pecking order, and that they play into it because it puts them “at the top”, but I still would have expected more self-awareness from otherwise-bright people  :3
2018-11-16 16:00:30	Moongoodnull{K}	KellerKatze :V
2018-11-16 16:02:08	KellerKatze	Moongoodnull{K}: Mew?
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2018-11-16 16:06:41	Moongoodnull{K}	agreed :P
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2018-11-16 16:30:24	viaken	Mew's adorable.
2018-11-16 18:06:00	sapeint	Hey
2018-11-16 18:22:28	rafasc	lrvick: https://public-inbox.org/git/20181115005546.212538-1-sxenos@google.com/
2018-11-16 18:22:29	--	Notice([]): r​afasc: Title "[PATCH] technical doc: add a design doc for the evolve command - sxenos" Shortened < https://is.gd/qLBxWV >
2018-11-16 18:22:43	rafasc	Think you might be interested in this.
2018-11-16 18:23:25	rafasc	git upstream design doc on a feature that promises to make commit reviews easier.
2018-11-16 18:26:58	lrvick	whoa
2018-11-16 18:29:24	lrvick	rafasc: I wonder how this will work with signing
2018-11-16 18:29:37	lrvick	I guess only the very last set as it goes to be merged will get signed by the author
2018-11-16 18:32:17	rafasc	I think that's the case, the rest will probably get stored separately, or discarded.
2018-11-16 18:33:52	rafasc	separately as in not directly referenced from the commit graph.
2018-11-16 18:35:51	lrvick	also TIL like 80% of the maintainers of git work for Google
2018-11-16 18:36:14	lrvick	because of course they do.
2018-11-16 18:37:01	rafasc	not sure what you got that from.
2018-11-16 18:37:15	rafasc	There's also a bunch from microsoft.
2018-11-16 18:37:38	lrvick	most of the people copied on the git-send-email to review
2018-11-16 18:37:53	lrvick	are googlers. Maybe he just hoped he would have better luck getting sign-off from his co-workers
2018-11-16 18:39:29	rafasc	it's a design doc, it's probably just people who demonstrated interest.
2018-11-16 18:39:58	lrvick	fair
2018-11-16 18:40:23	rafasc	https://public-inbox.org/git/CAPL8ZivFmHqS2y+WmNR6faRMnuahiqwPVYsV99NiJ1QLHOs9fQ@mail.gmail.com/
2018-11-16 18:40:24	--	Notice([]): r​afasc: Title "Git Evolve - Stefan Xenos" Shortened < https://is.gd/dJYkPS >
2018-11-16 18:40:53	rafasc	he's also probably cc'ing people involved on previous conversations.
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2018-11-16 23:02:53	KellerKatze	lrvick: I don't think the git authors care much about signing, since it doesn't work with their email-based workflow (git-send-email won't preserve signatures)
2018-11-16 23:02:56	KellerKatze	:P
2018-11-16 23:13:52	lrvick	the maintainer that merges it at least can sign
2018-11-16 23:14:12	lrvick	but yeah... the patch-id or convuluted commit-id-recreation solution could solve that
2018-11-16 23:26:56	KellerKatze	lrvick: Merge it into where?  :P
2018-11-16 23:27:15	 *	KellerKatze has no idea whether it really goes all the way to linus' tree through email, hopes not
2018-11-16 23:29:20	tunas	KellerKatze: I'm almost certain it doesn't, but it might.
2018-11-17 00:10:52	dgrove	KellerKatze: I'm pretty sure it does
2018-11-17 00:12:58	 *	KellerKatze whimpers
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2018-11-18 06:49:17	tseng	lrvick: just brought home a pax era. what temperature would you recommend?
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2018-11-18 08:25:56	lrvick	610 for most things seems optimal
2018-11-18 10:39:36	daurnimator	freedom units sound crazy lol
2018-11-18 11:21:28	epicmorphism	h
2018-11-18 11:28:26	daurnimator	f
2018-11-18 11:30:18	fwiw	s
2018-11-18 11:31:40	tunas	(
2018-11-18 11:31:42	tunas	+*
2018-11-18 11:53:14	daurnimator	!
2018-11-18 13:02:44	dch	we writing Forth?
2018-11-18 13:24:18	tunas	dch: I ought to learn Forth.
2018-11-18 13:24:26	tunas	Wasn't there a little processor you could program only in Forth?
2018-11-18 13:24:49	tunas	I don't mean a Forth core implemented in VHDL.
2018-11-18 13:24:49	dch	There are many Forth-like processors and VMs
2018-11-18 13:25:03	tunas	http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/sec4_4.html
2018-11-18 13:25:04	--	Notice([]): t​unas: Title "Page Moved, Automatic Forwarding..." Shortened < https://is.gd/sH51eP >
2018-11-18 13:25:05	tunas	This one.
2018-11-18 13:25:12	dch	Chuck Moore has designed a bunch, I own a couple.
2018-11-18 13:25:18	tunas	https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/sec4_4.html
2018-11-18 13:25:19	--	Notice([]): t​unas: Title "Stack Computers: 4.4 ARCHITECTURE OF THE NOVIX NC4016" Shortened < https://is.gd/KAa7LW >
2018-11-18 13:25:24	tunas	And yes, this is by Chuck Moore.
2018-11-18 13:25:30	dch	though they run compiled colorForth/arrayForth
2018-11-18 13:25:43	tunas	I dunno tbh, I never got into Forth.
2018-11-18 13:26:34	dch	It's a langauge with full support for almost any paradigm. Give or take the ones you'd have to implement yourself
2018-11-18 13:26:41	dch	lol.
2018-11-18 13:27:38	tunas	If you have to implement them yourself, that's still "supporting them."
2018-11-18 13:28:00	tunas	But yeah, it seems nifty.
2018-11-18 13:28:33	dch	Really it just doesn't support coroutines in general. There are a couple implementations for "multiprogrammed" Forths though. I think PolyForth was.
2018-11-18 13:32:36	dch	If you're ever interested in _FORTH!_, #Forth on Freenode is my home and everyone there is happy to help
2018-11-18 13:36:11	daurnimator	re small phones. http://www.sharp.co.jp/products/aquos-r2-compact/ looks like a potential one....
2018-11-18 13:36:13	--	Notice([]): d​aurnimator: Title "主な特長｜AQUOS R2 compact｜製品ラインアップ｜AQUOS：シャープ" Shortened < https://is.gd/BgMfIx >
2018-11-18 13:44:47	daurnimator	compared to my current/previous phone: https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=9406&idPhone2=8336&idPhone3=6538
2018-11-18 13:44:48	--	Notice([]): d​aurnimator: Title "Compare Sharp Aquos R2 compact vs. Samsung Galaxy A3 (2017) vs. Sony Xperia Z3 Compact - GSMArena.com" Shortened < https://is.gd/8HGSho >
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2018-11-18 19:47:27	polprog	tapez: https://puu.sh/C3VS6/b390b903ba.jpg
2018-11-18 19:47:29	--	Notice([]): p​olprog: Shortened < https://is.gd/btgLp6 >
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2018-11-18 22:45:42	tseng	lrvick: 610 was a little light on the vapor for me.
2018-11-18 22:46:10	tseng	s/liPght/light
2018-11-18 22:46:18	lrvick	Depends on ambient temp too
2018-11-18 22:46:46	tseng	Yeah... good point. 619 was decent after a few pulls to warm up, when I was indoors
2018-11-18 22:46:55	tseng	I'm outside now
2018-11-18 22:47:47	tseng	Love the flavor and the stone of this Sour Diesel
2018-11-18 22:48:08	tseng	But you can't buy Panda Pods in cali
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2018-11-19 06:41:42	dgrove	Sour Diesel is lyfe
2018-11-19 06:42:07	dgrove	If kurvana ever made Pax Pods it would be game over and I'd fully switch to the Era
2018-11-19 06:42:31	dgrove	Until then I have to swap between a 510 and an Era
2018-11-19 07:14:29	tunas	Kurvana?
2018-11-19 07:35:11	dgrove	They're a particular brand of concentrates. I love there banana smoothie one
2018-11-19 07:40:32	tunas	Oh :P
2018-11-19 09:01:24	epicmorphism	is that a weed smoking thing?
2018-11-19 09:24:33	tunas	Vapes.
2018-11-19 09:35:09	epicmorphism	VPAE WWEEED EVERY DAY
2018-11-19 09:36:52	slipxy	lets not and say we did
2018-11-19 09:38:17	tunas	slipxy has the right idea.
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2018-11-19 13:24:25	KellerKatze	I've been meaning to look into CBD vapes; it's legal here, and might help with the chronic nerve pain
2018-11-19 13:25:35	MaxLeiter	KellerKatze: have tried CBD, didnt really notice anything 
2018-11-19 13:25:38	MaxLeiter	https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/you-can-get-cannabis-in-your-coffee-but-does-is-it-really-do-anything/ is a good read
2018-11-19 13:25:39	--	Notice([]): M​axLeiter: Title "Does CBD Really Do Anything? | FiveThirtyEight" Shortened < https://is.gd/HjCsqs >
2018-11-19 13:28:02	KellerKatze	MaxLeiter: “didn't notice anything” in which sense?  because it's not really psychoactive, unlike THC, it won't get you high
2018-11-19 13:28:40	MaxLeiter	I took it for chronic pain due to a messed up hip flexor 
2018-11-19 13:28:44	MaxLeiter	didnt relieve pain
2018-11-19 13:29:22	KellerKatze	Yeah, it's more effective on neurological pain, not on inflammatory etc. pain
2018-11-19 13:30:03	MaxLeiter	🤷‍♂️
2018-11-19 13:31:03	KellerKatze	FYI, different analgesics work differently depending on patient and source of pain, so it's pretty useful to experiment (though your doctor should be able to recommend a small set of analgesics that are likely to work for you)
2018-11-19 13:31:42	MaxLeiter	luckily dont need it anymore, managed to do some PT and get it figured out
2018-11-19 13:32:23	viaken	MaxLeiter++ for info
2018-11-19 13:35:09	MaxLeiter	also @above; im currently living abroad and sour diesel is all i can get, however its outdoor grown and trash. dont think i can ever touch it again once im back home
2018-11-19 14:03:00	tseng	MaxLeiter: it wouldn't be the same
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2018-11-19 15:15:13	fatpointer	re: CBD vape pens.  my gf picked one up called dosist.  doesn't mess with my brain like THC does, but ultra body relaxation!
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2018-11-19 19:35:36	 *	tseng looks around in some disbelief
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2018-11-19 19:51:41	lrvick	yeah I have some high CBD stuff for sleep/relaxing, and higher THC stuff turning down some brain noise to focus on what is in front of me.
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2018-11-19 19:52:15	lrvick	starting to learn how they impact me.
2018-11-19 19:54:27	lrvick	I did learn never ever ever mix alcohol and weed.
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2018-11-19 21:17:42	MaxLeiter	lrvick: “beer before grass you’re on your ass, grass before beer you’re in the clear” 
2018-11-19 21:17:50	MaxLeiter	granted im college age so YMMV
2018-11-19 21:18:22	tseng	MaxLeiter: N/ot true
2018-11-19 21:18:43	tseng	MaxLeiter: beer before grass = waste of good smoke
2018-11-19 21:19:08	tseng	you'll smoke it all and won't feel much of it at all
2018-11-19 21:24:36	polprog	https://puu.sh/C4wu9/4b1acfd92d.jpg 
2018-11-19 21:24:37	--	Notice([]): p​olprog: Shortened < https://is.gd/0IPhnP >
2018-11-19 21:24:38	MaxLeiter	Read what I said again
2018-11-19 21:24:40	polprog	its alive
2018-11-19 21:25:08	MaxLeiter	beer before grass on your ass -> don’t do it 
2018-11-19 21:25:15	MaxLeiter	in the clear -> go right ahead 
2018-11-19 21:26:27	handyc	"beer before grass, 'oh well, at this point i guess i'll just skip class,' grass before beer, 'professor, so glad you're here'"
2018-11-19 21:30:20	MaxLeiter	I like it 
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2018-11-19 21:52:39	handyc	:-)
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2018-11-19 22:40:15	tunas	I have a Sony dual tape deck but it's not working.
2018-11-19 22:40:26	tunas	I also have a little Aiwa tape recorder.
2018-11-19 22:40:54	tunas	I recorded a little mixtape of my favorite tracks for my car's cassette deck (because my car's about as old as I am) and it's lit.
2018-11-19 22:50:55	KellerKatze	tunas: Cassettes are pretty rad, TBH
2018-11-19 22:51:09	tunas	I know, right?
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2018-11-20 00:16:36	daurnimator	tunas: old model?
2018-11-20 00:20:24	tseng	i love cassettes
2018-11-20 00:20:48	tseng	not as much as open reel, but still
2018-11-20 00:21:37	tseng	I always loved the experience of planning out and recording mixtapes
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2018-11-20 08:20:51	dgrove	lrvick: it takes respect and time to mix
2018-11-20 08:21:16	dgrove	And I still fuck up sometimes. 
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2018-11-20 09:00:50	tseng	thank you for flying paxbang
2018-11-20 09:01:25	 *	tseng lowers temp to 610 degrees
2018-11-20 09:05:39	tseng	Mmm.. Sunset Sherbet
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2018-11-20 18:20:30	commloss	\
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2018-11-20 19:53:25	dgrove	Sunset Sherbet is life
2018-11-20 19:53:40	dgrove	My buddy use to grow his own. It was beautiful 
2018-11-20 19:54:08	fosslinux	guys: thunix is going down
2018-11-20 19:54:13	fosslinux	get your data fast
2018-11-20 19:58:23	tunas	fosslinux: Like, for good?
2018-11-20 19:58:38	tunas	And just as I was gonna make an account there... Wow.
2018-11-20 19:58:59	fosslinux	yep
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2018-11-20 23:10:42	--	Notice(github): [admin-tools] KellerFuchs opened pull request #147: ldap_ban: Remove users' SSH pubkeys from the LDAP directory (master...ldap_ban/ssh_keys) https://git.io/fp8Y1
2018-11-20 23:45:30	tunas	I noticed that one can easily collect user pubkeys with any old no-frills ldap viewer, so that is a good idea.
2018-11-20 23:45:35	tunas	It's not a security risk, but...
2018-11-20 23:46:12	tunas	It's not really a useful thing to have accessible via LDAP for now imho.
2018-11-20 23:55:47	KellerKatze	tunas: What do you mean, “it's not really a useful thing to have accessible via LDAP” ?
2018-11-20 23:57:43	KellerKatze	'cause, given that we use LDAP to manage authorized_keys, they have to be in LDAP
2018-11-21 00:02:31	daurnimator	tunas: we don't see it as an issue.
2018-11-21 00:03:28	daurnimator	tunas: you know that you can get any github user's key too?: https://github.com/daurnimator.keys
2018-11-21 00:03:28	--	Notice([]): d​aurnimator: Shortened < https://is.gd/yzy573 >
2018-11-21 00:16:08	viaken	https://github.com/ehazlett/stellar/
2018-11-21 00:16:10	--	Notice([]): v​iaken: Title "GitHub - ehazlett/stellar: Simplified Container System" Shortened < https://is.gd/KqdHy3 >
2018-11-21 00:16:24	viaken	A simplified container system sounds like an interesting project.
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2018-11-21 04:21:42	fosslinux	tunas: getting a pubkey is not a problem
2018-11-21 04:43:23	ryan	viaken: based on the project description it's an orchestrator moreso than a "runtime"?
2018-11-21 04:44:22	ryan	Probably better to describe it as such, as "simplified container system" sounds more like just a runtime
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2018-11-21 07:58:32	tunas	KellerKatze: Sorry, it was late and I didn't make myself clear :P I meant via anonymous LDAP access.
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2018-11-21 12:01:23	KellerKatze	tunas: The thing is that the shell servers themselves use anonymous LDAP access to retrieve user info; we could setup per-server secrets, but that goes against our goal of anyone being able to reproduce our setup on their own machine and have a functionning #! shell server
2018-11-21 12:30:41	tunas	Point taken..
2018-11-21 12:33:38	fwiw	Line drawn..
2018-11-21 12:38:38	Andrio	Plane flown.
2018-11-21 12:49:17	KellerKatze	tunas: To be fair, there are a couple of places where that's not entirely true (for instance, our mail server won't trust random machines off the internet to send mail as @hashbang.sh)
2018-11-21 12:51:37	KellerKatze	but for the most part, it should be; it does (currently) mean exposing LDAP to anonymous reads, but OTOH any shell user could get the same into from NSS and sss_ssh_authorizedkeys
2018-11-21 13:01:06	fwiw	Andrio: nice one
2018-11-21 13:02:53	napcae	these keys are meant to be public, I wouldn't worry too much. 
2018-11-21 13:12:01	KellerKatze	napcae: You can still use them to associate #! accounts to Github accounts, for instance, which isn't ideal
2018-11-21 13:46:30	epicmorphism	o that's a good point
2018-11-21 13:53:07	napcae	use different keys per host if worry about privacy. but yes, you're right
2018-11-21 14:00:33	KellerKatze	Using per-service keys is kinda unwieldy, and prevents you from using a smartcard or somesuch (unless you want to lug around many of them, I guess)
2018-11-21 14:00:55	KellerKatze	I do per-identity keys, and it's painful enough as-is
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2018-11-21 15:36:24	cxl	Hey, I forgot again... How do I switch windows, ctrl-b is already bound on my machine, and ctrl-a doesn't seem to be it
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2018-11-21 15:37:45	reynir	why is ctrl-b bound
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2018-11-21 15:38:04	cxl	byobu
2018-11-21 15:38:31	cxl	found it, it's ctrl-b b <window number>
2018-11-21 15:38:42	cxl	that passes the ctrl-b through to the ssh session
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2018-11-21 15:51:44	tunas	cxl: Byobu in byobu?
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2018-11-21 16:33:30	dgrove	Wai? http://linuxbrew.sh
2018-11-21 16:33:31	--	Notice([]): d​grove: Title "Linuxbrew | The Homebrew package manager for Linux" 
2018-11-21 16:37:38	dgrove	At least searching hn 1) it wasn't received well 2) it's been around for a while and still wasn't received well :) 
2018-11-21 16:43:30	benharri	what's the point 
2018-11-21 16:43:42	benharri	like what's to be gained
2018-11-21 16:49:48	minerobber[team]	at least chromebrew has the purpose of making native chromebook bash useful
2018-11-21 16:51:40	benharri	that's reasonable since there isn't a native package manager
2018-11-21 16:53:18	ryan	Brew is user level isn't it? That would be useful on Linux.
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2018-11-21 16:56:15	benharri	oh does it install per-user?
2018-11-21 17:00:00	tunas	I think it does, it would be useful on systems like #! for packages the user needs, such as dependencies, without asking the admins to install them system-wide.
2018-11-21 17:01:01	benharri	if it's a debian package you can just PR the shell-server repo
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2018-11-21 17:09:13	tunas	Yeah, I know, but you know... :P
2018-11-21 17:14:15	dgrove	lrvick: will probably personally hunt down anyone that puts that into our shell servers....
2018-11-21 17:14:29	benharri	lol yeah
2018-11-21 17:14:38	tunas	dgrove: What do you do once you've hunted them town?
2018-11-21 17:15:01	dgrove	I won't do anything
2018-11-21 17:16:22	dgrove	That poor soul will either die of bordem being told about all the security problems they just introducted or off themselves because he won't stop talking about how nothing is signed ;)
2018-11-21 17:16:24	tunas	down
2018-11-21 17:16:41	tunas	My internet connection over here is just...
2018-11-21 17:16:43	tunas	...wow.
2018-11-21 17:17:33	tunas	But yeah, you're right, they deserve that. I might be kidding I would, but I don't see myself actually doing it.
2018-11-21 17:17:43	dgrove	tunas: internet-ing is hard mmmm-kay?
2018-11-21 17:18:10	dgrove	This _may_ create an easier way to do userland installs, but come on that's not really hard rn anyways
2018-11-21 17:18:11	tunas	Especially when you're on not LTE, not 3G, but 2G.
2018-11-21 17:18:13	tunas	EDGE.
2018-11-21 17:18:34	dgrove	I just actually shivered
2018-11-21 17:18:53	dgrove	That's quite unfortunate
2018-11-21 17:19:05	tunas	Ah well, what can you do.
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2018-11-21 18:00:51	KellerKatze	ryan: Eh, IIRC, brew needs special privileges (or entirely drop all pretenses of security and let users write to /usr/local)
2018-11-21 18:01:44	ryan	It does the latter but you should be able to change the root for "custom" setups
2018-11-21 18:20:10	KellerKatze	Are you sure?  I would expect many packages to break
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2018-11-21 18:34:26	useruser	q
2018-11-21 18:39:01	useruser	q
2018-11-21 18:49:19	tunas	useruser: Try /quit .
2018-11-21 18:49:33	nv0bdizc	:wq ;)
2018-11-21 18:49:44	tunas	Hehehe :P
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2018-11-21 19:01:38	tunas	Why do I find it funny when people join a service and don't want the chat function, so they try to leave and instead end up saying something?
2018-11-21 19:01:48	tunas	It happened (still happens) with EyeWire too.
2018-11-21 19:02:00	tunas	People keep saying "exit" and "quit" and "close" in chat.
2018-11-21 19:08:50	polprog	:wq
2018-11-21 19:08:56	polprog	http://polprog.net/friday-edit-th.png
2018-11-21 19:08:57	--	Notice([]): p​olprog: Shortened < https://is.gd/PnnFuy >
2018-11-21 19:09:03	polprog	i drew this
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2018-11-21 20:01:55	d8bug	guys
2018-11-21 20:02:24	d8bug	does hashbang users have storage limitation?
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2018-11-21 20:29:38	l1nkd	ping
2018-11-21 20:38:27	polprog	pong
2018-11-21 20:50:05	tunas	d8bug: The storage limitation is however large the disk is, but AFAIK you're supposed to be nice and not hog too much space :)
2018-11-21 20:50:13	tunas	Why do you ask, if I may ask?
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2018-11-21 22:06:09	lrvick	d8bug: everything has limitations. it is a free service
2018-11-21 22:06:23	lrvick	d8bug: we would perfer you not to try to store every cat picture on the internet on your shell
2018-11-21 22:06:57	lrvick	if you need to use a significant percentage of the available disk of a node, then you really should talk about it with an admin first
2018-11-21 22:07:06	lrvick	we are pretty liberal and trusting, until a user starts being abusive.
2018-11-21 22:07:39	lrvick	then we shame them in public and fuck them to death.
2018-11-21 22:08:02	lrvick	or depending on what admin is on duty, we ask them politely to stop.
2018-11-21 22:10:32	lrvick	We are mostly an anarchy/do-ocracy.
2018-11-21 22:12:10	 *	EHG walks in with a happy face, rope and ball gag in hand
2018-11-21 22:12:14	EHG	did I hear shaming
2018-11-21 22:29:11	viaken	lrvick: Have you audited cargo (Rust's package manager)?
2018-11-21 22:29:52	viaken	polprog++ I laughed
2018-11-21 22:33:27	lrvick	viaken: I have not looked at it past the front page where they told me to curl | sh with no signature verification
2018-11-21 22:33:35	lrvick	and lost any faith that the rest of it was any better.
2018-11-21 22:36:15	KellerKatze	lrvick: FWIW, rustup checks signatures on the rust toolchain binaries it installs; I don't think it's packaged in Debian yet, though
2018-11-21 22:36:37	KellerKatze	but yes, there's a useful path to bootstraping trust in the binaries you are installing
2018-11-21 22:36:50	lrvick	that is good to know. Well hopefully they fixup their horribly stupid default installation method recommendation.
2018-11-21 22:37:16	lrvick	does cargo do signature auditing?
2018-11-21 22:37:19	lrvick	hash locking?
2018-11-21 22:38:58	lrvick	at this point after auditing nix, brew, npm, pip... I am losing all faith in the ability of almost any engineers to not be idiots when it comes to authorship attribution, code review, or package integrity outside of mainline linux distros.
2018-11-21 22:41:36	lrvick	Oh man. I feel another spreadsheet coming on
2018-11-21 22:41:41	KellerKatze	lrvick: Even major Linux distros can fuck it up majorly
2018-11-21 22:41:47	lrvick	package manager security
2018-11-21 22:42:02	lrvick	all major lanaguage and os package managers
2018-11-21 22:42:03	KellerKatze	RPM only grew the ability to sign repositories some months ago
2018-11-21 22:42:11	lrvick	and what core security features they offer
2018-11-21 22:42:29	lrvick	so all the ones that suck can be publicly shamed like we did for messengers
2018-11-21 22:43:01	KellerKatze	before that, it was all per-package signatures, so an evil mirror can just mix-and-match packages, withold security updates, ...
2018-11-21 22:43:13	lrvick	gross
2018-11-21 22:43:18	lrvick	yeah to me debian is the gold standard
2018-11-21 22:43:19	KellerKatze	Isn't it?
2018-11-21 22:43:22	lrvick	not perfect
2018-11-21 22:43:26	fwiw	KellerKatze: true
2018-11-21 22:43:33	lrvick	but better than everything else
2018-11-21 22:43:57	lrvick	really the spreadsheet would show just how far off everything else is from debian, and where debian has room to improve (like 100% repro builds)
2018-11-21 22:44:16	KellerKatze	Yeah; I think I linked you the talk about proposed improvements to the Debian archive?
2018-11-21 22:44:27	lrvick	not sure.
2018-11-21 22:44:37	lrvick	but I would for sure like to put together an index for this.
2018-11-21 22:47:05	KellerKatze	Meh, repro builds isn't the think I would bang on; it's 94% reproducible for stretch, and 100% (plus enforcement) is a clear goal for the project.
2018-11-21 22:47:29	lrvick	It would be yellow for debian as WIP
2018-11-21 22:47:37	lrvick	and fail for almost everything else
2018-11-21 22:47:50	lrvick	but people need to become aware this should be a goal for every package manager
2018-11-21 22:48:01	KellerKatze	Yes, sure
2018-11-21 22:48:05	lrvick	honestly bitcoin core kicks ass at this
2018-11-21 22:48:08	lrvick	with gitian
2018-11-21 22:48:26	lrvick	they get piiiles of well respected community memebers to submit their detached signatures
2018-11-21 22:48:30	lrvick	to add trust for releases
2018-11-21 22:48:35	KellerKatze	Sure, but getting a single piece of software to build reproducibly is easy
2018-11-21 22:48:52	lrvick	yeah by contrast debians efforts are gods work
2018-11-21 22:49:05	lrvick	and everyone else can copy/paste their patches and build args
2018-11-21 22:49:22	KellerKatze	We actually try to upstream most of those patches
2018-11-21 22:49:36	KellerKatze	It's less maintainance work, and benefits everyone
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2018-11-21 23:00:31	viaken	lrvick: Ah, I didn't see that. I installed it via pacman.
2018-11-21 23:01:51	viaken	Also, I linked that spreadsheet on someone's discussion about secure messaging. They asked about who created it, so I linked them to #!.
2018-11-21 23:02:01	viaken	They abandoned it just as quickly as you did Cargo. lol
2018-11-21 23:02:11	viaken	I'm about to go compliment them on passing the test.
2018-11-21 23:48:41	tunas	I'll be honest, I first viewed the source of hashbang.sh, but only because I was on mobile at the time.
2018-11-21 23:49:07	tunas	Then I pulled out my laptop at 1 AM to run the whole curl & gpg & bash thing.
2018-11-21 23:49:13	tunas	That was a fun birthday.
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2018-11-22 00:13:30	viaken	...I think the person I linked the info to ignored me. I can't find the post anymore.
2018-11-22 00:13:44	viaken	tunas++ for checking
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2018-11-22 10:11:44	epicmorphism	hi
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2018-11-22 10:23:53	napcae	hola
2018-11-22 10:27:51	epimorphism	Hm I have problem with bcrypt on the ny1 server. It gives me an error: Encryption support disabled. See http://bugs.debian.org/700758
2018-11-22 10:27:56	--	Notice([]): e​pimorphism: Title "#700758 - bcrypt: Bcrypt exposes patterns in data, it is broken - Debian Bug report logs" Shortened < https://is.gd/QM1Mhw >
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2018-11-22 12:03:50	tunas	epimorphism: I suppose it's because bcrypt is insecure, it's now unsupported.
2018-11-22 12:43:39	daurnimator	ryan: yeah that doesn't work
2018-11-22 12:43:46	daurnimator	woops. I was scrolled up
2018-11-22 12:43:48	daurnimator	ignore me
2018-11-22 12:48:10	daurnimator	epicmorphism: what are you trying to do?
2018-11-22 12:48:33	daurnimator	these days "bcrypt" usually refers to the password hashing algorithm. not the file encryption utility
2018-11-22 14:02:00	epicmorphism	daurnimator: just playing around. brcypt was mentioned in `man hashbang'
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2018-11-23 04:55:45	ryan	Chromium literally refuses to not jump to a specific id when I press Enter
2018-11-23 04:56:22	ryan	as in, I can clarify that the target is "#" and then when I press enter it changes
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2018-11-23 05:05:36	viaken	JS meddling?
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2018-11-23 05:10:01	fwiw	ryan: typo?
2018-11-23 05:10:48	ryan	viaken: no, disabled
2018-11-23 05:11:05	ryan	fwiw: nope, i press enter and it goes from "#" -immediately- to the one that it thinks i want
2018-11-23 05:11:40	fwiw	ryan: did the id contains punctuation, whitespace, or stuff like that?
2018-11-23 05:11:54	fwiw	or is there ID conflict?
2018-11-23 05:12:04	ryan	yep just confirmed if i wipe it from history it's fine
2018-11-23 05:12:07	ryan	definitely a Chrome bug
2018-11-23 05:12:27	ryan	my guess is that it has no instance in history of it -not- being with that so whenever i press enter it autocompletes it
2018-11-23 05:13:22	fwiw	also, semi-related, adding #top to any url will bring that page into the top 
2018-11-23 05:13:59	fwiw	*will jump you into the top
2018-11-23 05:14:05	fwiw	of the page
2018-11-23 05:14:12	fwiw	unless there's element with that id
2018-11-23 05:15:39	ryan	yeah, but i literally couldn't remove the other one. was weird.
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2018-11-23 10:03:44	bercik	howdy
2018-11-23 10:05:11	epimorphism	h
2018-11-23 10:14:52	fwiw	o
2018-11-23 10:43:20	tunas	w
2018-11-23 10:45:20	fwiw	d
2018-11-23 10:46:24	napcae	y
2018-11-23 10:56:40	fwiw	we did it #!!!!
2018-11-23 11:09:50	tunas	Now go to #spelling on tilde.town and see our efforts there. :P
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2018-11-23 12:11:32	reynir	t
2018-11-23 12:15:52	fwiw	i
2018-11-23 12:25:34	slipxy	c
2018-11-23 12:48:11	reynir	t
2018-11-23 12:48:35	daurnimator	u
2018-11-23 13:09:27	fwiw	c
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2018-11-23 14:21:27	EpicKitty	q
2018-11-23 14:21:46	Andrio	u
2018-11-23 14:21:49	EpicKitty	a
2018-11-23 14:22:00	jesopo	c
2018-11-23 14:22:02	EpicKitty	k
2018-11-23 14:22:53	fwiw	e
2018-11-23 14:23:08	EpicKitty	r
2018-11-23 14:23:33	fwiw	s
2018-11-23 14:23:40	EpicKitty	!
2018-11-23 14:24:07	fwiw	?
2018-11-23 14:25:32	slipxy	™
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2018-11-23 15:17:54	EpicKitty	Mateon1: I know your name from somewhere
2018-11-23 15:58:05	fwiw	from the list on the right of your client right?
2018-11-23 16:00:27	EpicKitty	Hmm, maybe
2018-11-23 16:00:31	EpicKitty	Somewhere else too
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2018-11-23 18:12:18	polprog	are we playing ouija?
2018-11-23 18:47:24	tseng	no u
2018-11-23 18:47:40	polprog	n
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2018-11-23 21:05:25	fwiw	o
2018-11-23 21:08:38	 *	tseng drops a pin
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2018-11-23 21:34:20	handyc	hi tseng
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2018-11-23 21:51:41	reynir	h
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2018-11-23 23:16:47	tseng	hi handyc 
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2018-11-24 01:06:15	lrvick	Okay so I have #!os booting built totally from source code including kernel (except for a few vendor blobs that can't be avoided), with all hardware working. Fdroid is setup as system app installer without having to do untrusted sources.
2018-11-24 01:07:39	lrvick	next up is setting up a make_keys command which will enable verified boot.
2018-11-24 01:08:08	lrvick	by EOD this should be ready to use for people that have a beefy box to build it.
2018-11-24 01:08:34	lrvick	required beating up google a bit to get all the kernel sources published. that was fun.
2018-11-24 01:10:38	lrvick	note: I heavily took advantage of the new android 9.0 build system to really simplify updates from upstream, which means pre Pixel-3 devices won't be easy to support.
2018-11-24 01:12:01	tunas	lrvick: I have a device that can run 9.0.
2018-11-24 01:12:06	tunas	Will it be able to support it?
2018-11-24 01:12:39	lrvick	If the sources are fully public and you have a source for the driver blobs, probably.
2018-11-24 01:13:01	lrvick	The only thing that should really vary from device to device will be obtaining and installing the driver blobs
2018-11-24 01:13:59	lrvick	Feel free to look at the build.sh script and try to adapt it to build for your device.
2018-11-24 01:14:02	lrvick	patches welcome
2018-11-24 01:14:16	lrvick	I'll only be maintaining Pixel 3 devices as that is what I have to test on.
2018-11-24 01:14:21	tseng	so what is #!os? for mobile handsets?
2018-11-24 01:14:37	lrvick	but if you are volunteering to help maintain a device, cool.
2018-11-24 01:15:01	lrvick	#!os is intended as a more maintainable decentralized successor to copperheados.
2018-11-24 01:15:22	lrvick	and a more secure and consumer-flashable alternative to rattlesnakeos
2018-11-24 01:19:35	ryan	if you can pay enough to run it
2018-11-24 01:20:18	ryan	every time i look more into a self-built Android solution everything ends up locked behind paying someone else to fix your problems, whether it's a service provider for a working ROM, a brand new phone to build it yourself, or just paying someone else to do the work
2018-11-24 01:24:36	lrvick	what do you mean pay enough to run it?
2018-11-24 01:24:47	lrvick	I simplified the entire process to "make" and "make install"
2018-11-24 01:26:40	ryan	yes because you could afford one of what, two? phones that are officially supported for Android 9.0?
2018-11-24 01:28:12	lrvick	Sure. I am willing to sponsor the project to serve my own requirement to have an trusted handset.
2018-11-24 01:28:19	lrvick	and in turn everyone else can benefit.
2018-11-24 01:28:38	lrvick	if other people want to agree to maintain other devices. cool
2018-11-24 01:29:17	lrvick	I would rather support 1/2 devices well, than support 100 devices very badly with no security like lineageos
2018-11-24 01:29:23	ryan	so everyone else -doesn't- benefit unless you find a way to maintain for other devices. i bought a $800 phone and am still in the hole for it, so why should i buy another thousand-dollar phone?
2018-11-24 01:30:16	lrvick	you could either A: add support for your phone. B: switch to a supported phone C: have yolo security like every other android owner on the planet
2018-11-24 01:30:32	lrvick	depends on what you want and how much you want it
2018-11-24 01:30:41	ryan	so i could either A: spend time i don't have, B: spend money I don't have, C: suffer
2018-11-24 01:31:07	ryan	i guess my point is that Android sucks, phones suck, and you have to be rich to be secure
2018-11-24 01:31:08	lrvick	or go make a patreon for #! to support projects like this.
2018-11-24 01:31:57	lrvick	it is true that security is a luxury for the rich. This is unforunate. but my hope is that people that are about to spend $800 on a new phone will be able to reach for a supported #!os device
2018-11-24 01:32:10	lrvick	and in time with donations and interest perhaps people will add support for other devices
2018-11-24 01:32:34	lrvick	I made it pretty easy to add support for new devices: https://github.com/hashbang/os/blob/master/config/crosshatch.env
2018-11-24 01:32:34	--	Notice([]): l​rvick: Title "os/crosshatch.env at master · hashbang/os · GitHub" Shortened < https://is.gd/Pb1m1D >
2018-11-24 01:32:41	lrvick	and update the manifest file with any other sources needed
2018-11-24 01:33:03	lrvick	I'll add docs for adding support for new devices more specifically, once I have this one to 100%
2018-11-24 01:34:02	lrvick	if you get a patreon going for #! we can vote to use some of the proceeds to sponsor devices for volunteer maintainers
2018-11-24 01:34:41	lrvick	we probably won't ever be able to support totally closed devices like those form samsung without shit tons of reverse engineering
2018-11-24 01:34:56	lrvick	devices where google actually releases source code and drivers are obviously the lowest hanging fruit.
2018-11-24 01:35:28	ryan	does #! legally not have a treasurer who should manage that?
2018-11-24 01:36:57	lrvick	legally stinethebean is treasurer but dgrove offered to set up the bank account and patreon a few months ago, but he has other stuff going on too.
2018-11-24 01:37:15	lrvick	so as with most things if you want to expedite anything and have a few cycles to spare, there are ways like that to help.
2018-11-24 01:37:26	lrvick	my time is currently best spent getting this project launched for a single device
2018-11-24 01:37:49	lrvick	since I am fairly familiar with android internals
2018-11-24 01:41:34	 *	tseng is fairly familiar with your mom's internals
2018-11-24 01:41:44	 *	lrvick slow claps
2018-11-24 01:48:17	dgrove	I need to fix a pr
2018-11-24 01:59:49	--	Notice(github): [admin-tools] drGrove pushed 1 new commit to board-members-email: https://git.io/fp03o
2018-11-24 01:59:49	--	Notice(github): admin-tools/board-members-email 2da8118 Danny Grove: Move board_members -> board
2018-11-24 01:59:51	dgrove	Updated
2018-11-24 02:01:58	ryan	hm, that's annoying
2018-11-24 02:02:03	ryan	poetry new; requires an empty directory
2018-11-24 02:02:09	ryan	even .git causes it to hiccup
2018-11-24 02:02:41	fwiw	what's poetry?
2018-11-24 02:02:50	fwiw	try init instead?
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2018-11-24 02:03:27	ryan	yeah, just found that
2018-11-24 02:03:36	ryan	looks like `init` works better than `new` does, actually
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2018-11-24 05:48:22	dgrove	lrvick: 
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2018-11-24 06:29:21	ryan	as of today i have lost all faith in humanity and will never regain it until i never again have to write a callback
2018-11-24 06:29:57	Andrio	:o
2018-11-24 06:30:39	ryan	someone in a Freenode channel is essentially designing a race condition by putting callbacks in the global scope and using a dynamic lookup at the time of callback
2018-11-24 06:32:08	ryan	oh, no, now they've moved on to references. :I
2018-11-24 06:32:22	fosslinux	hold on how the heck are they doing that? on this channel???
2018-11-24 06:32:55	ryan	well i did say it was a Freenode channel, talking about a specific thing they're doing
2018-11-24 06:33:16	fosslinux	oh sorry
2018-11-24 06:33:25	fosslinux	i just got mixed up for a minute there
2018-11-24 06:33:26	viaken	lrvick: Shouldn't #! use Liberapay?
2018-11-24 06:38:31	ryan	oh boi
2018-11-24 06:38:39	ryan	it "just happened" to start working
2018-11-24 06:38:43	ryan	the race conditions begin
2018-11-24 07:47:57	minerobber[team]	what channel? also that's not gonna end well :P
2018-11-24 07:54:15	lrvick	viaken: that would make sense if someone set it up
2018-11-24 07:54:24	lrvick	I would support that
2018-11-24 08:28:03	dgrove	KellerKatze: PR for board members should be good now. Sorry for the delay
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2018-11-24 13:46:41	dch	What do you guys think of the lzip vs gz/bz2 argument?
2018-11-24 15:34:44	tunas	dch: What argument?
2018-11-24 15:34:48	tunas	Which one is better?
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2018-11-24 16:24:18	reynir	Someone asked me recently what 'abstraction' means
2018-11-24 16:24:47	reynir	I didn't know what to say
2018-11-24 17:04:26	epicmorphism	yeah.. how do you even answer that
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2018-11-24 18:57:57	dch	tunas: i guess it's not really an argument, bad choice of words
2018-11-24 18:58:21	dch	more of a "lack in adoption of lzip vs gz/bz2"
2018-11-24 18:58:34	quetzalcoatl	._.
2018-11-24 19:50:49	viaken	lrvick: Place to pimp #!os: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18521970
2018-11-24 19:50:50	--	Notice([]): v​iaken: Title "Leaving Apple and Google: more devices now supported | Hacker News" Shortened < https://is.gd/jyOjlv >
2018-11-24 19:51:08	viaken	Someone already brought up Rattlesnake.
2018-11-24 20:09:58	dch	/e/ seems pretty shift
2018-11-24 20:10:08	dch	s/shift/shifty
2018-11-24 20:10:11	dch	https://ewwlo.xyz/evil
2018-11-24 20:10:12	--	Notice([]): d​ch: Title "/e/vil | ewwlo.xyz" 
2018-11-24 20:14:13	viaken	dch++
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2018-11-24 20:18:05	dch	I don't know what that means
2018-11-24 20:21:31	KellerKatze	benharri: BTW, if you remember the conversation where I suggested (mostly in jest) we should use CRIU to preserve user sessions
2018-11-24 20:22:49	KellerKatze	I just realised one major benefit: we could set unattended-upgrades to reboop servers as needed for kernel upgrades, instead of admins manually announcing reboots and failing to do it when they said they would
2018-11-24 20:50:57	tunas	reynir: Whatever you answer to that question is just an abstraction of the real answer.
2018-11-24 20:53:59	dch	"Abstraction? Eh, there's no concrete definition."
2018-11-24 20:59:18	viaken	dch: Many languages use "x++" to increment x. I've seen it often used in chat to mean "I agree with you" or "I found that useful".
2018-11-24 21:02:20	dch	Makes sense.
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2018-11-25 02:25:27	benharri	hehe that would be nice
2018-11-25 02:25:33	benharri	let unattended-upgrades to it
2018-11-25 02:25:36	benharri	s/to/do
2018-11-25 03:23:23	ryan	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/password-store/+bug/1727423
2018-11-25 03:23:25	--	Notice([]): r​yan: Title "Bug #1727423 “Include passmenu in installation” : Bugs : password-store package : Ubuntu" Shortened < https://is.gd/7TQ1GG >
2018-11-25 03:23:35	ryan	"let's include this 100% functional program... as an example!"
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2018-11-25 06:48:25	commloss	2
2018-11-25 06:48:27	commloss	2
2018-11-25 06:50:12	ryan	You can switch windows by using ctrl-b and then the window number.
2018-11-25 06:58:47	fwiw	ryan: are you sure they wanna switch windows?
2018-11-25 06:59:10	ryan	no but if they don't then I'd assume they'd respond with their actual intention after realizing this is IRC
2018-11-25 07:00:13	fwiw	maybe they just thought that this is calculator, and wanna count stuff
2018-11-25 07:00:26	ryan	i think mine's more likely
2018-11-25 08:15:58	lrvick	#!os now builds signed release images
2018-11-25 08:16:22	lrvick	I am not confident enough to ship releases with #! keys yet, but I added a "make keys" command to generate your own set
2018-11-25 08:16:27	lrvick	see README.md
2018-11-25 08:21:01	lrvick	Also hammered out a script to automatically discover new releases of all git upstreams and generate updated hash-locked manifest files: https://github.com/hashbang/os/blob/master/scripts/manifest
2018-11-25 08:21:02	--	Notice([]): l​rvick: Title "os/manifest at master · hashbang/os · GitHub" Shortened < https://is.gd/o19j5W >
2018-11-25 08:24:32	lrvick	in theory you could now plug in your phone in fastboot mode and flash it with a self-signed secure booted latest upstream release of AOSP via: "make keys manifest build flash"
2018-11-25 08:24:51	lrvick	weeks of evening research distilled to a Makefile and supporting scripts
2018-11-25 08:25:19	lrvick	the android build system really is a clusterfuck.
2018-11-25 08:25:54	lrvick	If you must participate in a cluster fuck or abstractions: add more abstractions.
2018-11-25 08:35:15	tseng	 and wear a rubber
2018-11-25 08:35:39	ryan	isn't that just another abstraction
2018-11-25 08:36:03	tseng	yeah, and you really shouldn't. but... that's where the money is
2018-11-25 08:38:16	tseng	though, he does have a point. often times i've tidied ugly things up by adding another layer
2018-11-25 08:38:37	ryan	i like makefiles as a simple abstraction to things
2018-11-25 08:38:58	ryan	it's nice that i can usually compact all of my stuff into "make", "make test", "make install", "make deploy"
2018-11-25 10:19:38	lrvick	So I need some way to do accountability to at least one third party that can do independent builds and demonstrate a given phone update is legit.
2018-11-25 10:20:06	lrvick	Mickay said ECDSA signatures are an option for all android verified boot stuff, which is at the heart just dm-verity.
2018-11-25 10:22:44	lrvick	As best I can tell there are two viable paths. ECDSA Threshold Signing (multiple private keys create a standard signature valid against one public key) or a system where one or more reproducible build validators are trusted with a revocation cert they can publish at any time if they prove there is any tampering.
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2018-11-25 15:23:27	tunas	useruser: Try /quit.
2018-11-25 17:50:05	KellerKatze	lrvick: First one would be much better (threshold ECDSA for the secure boot key)
2018-11-25 17:57:57	lrvick	for sure. That said it seems almost no tooling exists for it
2018-11-25 17:58:04	lrvick	just piles of whitepapers
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2018-11-25 23:14:34	mlyons	help
2018-11-25 23:14:42	mlyons	oops. sorry.
2018-11-25 23:43:34	KellerKatze	mlyons: Do you need help with something?
2018-11-25 23:44:04	KellerKatze	lrvick: Sure, but that can be implemented (also, IIRC there are a couple of libraries that implement that already?)
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2018-11-25 23:50:07	mlyons	@KellerKatze I was looking for a list of commands, in this case to scroll back in the log. I forgot that `help` would go onto the log, rather than execute a command a la `/help`
2018-11-25 23:50:21	 *	KellerKatze nods
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2018-11-26 22:01:24	marlyn	o/
2018-11-26 22:01:58	ryan	\o
2018-11-26 22:02:02	ryan	Greetings.
2018-11-26 22:06:36	tunas	Heya ryan.
2018-11-26 22:09:58	marlyn	Let's see: how would one browse to the "Public" directory from a web browser? I don't see any mention of that within the man page
2018-11-26 22:10:20	marlyn	hashbang.sh/~$USERNAME doesn't seem to work
2018-11-26 22:10:35	ryan	there's a systemd unit file at ~/.config/systemd/user/SimpleHTTPServer.service
2018-11-26 22:10:46	marlyn	Ahh
2018-11-26 22:10:53	ryan	you can edit it, change the port to something -probably- not already taken, then use `systemctl --user enable --now SimpleHTTPServer`
2018-11-26 22:10:57	ryan	eventually we'll get the tilde working
2018-11-26 22:11:36	marlyn	Got it!
2018-11-26 22:15:38	KellerKatze	Yes, we really need to either make it “just work” or update that message
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2018-11-26 22:23:20	marlyn	Is there any process I need to take in order to incorporate updates/changes to the skeleton config over time?
2018-11-26 22:25:44	ryan	as of right now we don't actually have a clean update system
2018-11-26 22:26:01	ryan	once we figure it out, it'll probably be mass-mailed
2018-11-26 22:26:04	marlyn	OK
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2018-11-26 22:36:18	marlyn	How do users quit from this IRC server? Are they manually closing weechat? Or is the hashbang node they're on rebooting? Or does this chat allow connections from external hosts?
2018-11-26 22:36:40	marlyn	The frequency of joins/parts/quits is unusually high, if I'm understanding the architecture of this system right
2018-11-26 22:41:39	tunas	marlyn: People come here to use the shell, the shell automatically opens weechat and then they /quit.
2018-11-26 22:41:42	tunas	That's in most cases.
2018-11-26 22:41:51	marlyn	ah, got it
2018-11-26 22:42:12	marlyn	Would it then be a good idea to let users know of the "/filter" command when joining?
2018-11-26 22:42:21	tunas	What would /filter do?
2018-11-26 22:43:02	marlyn	It allows you to set filtering in weechat - one instance being the "irc_smart_filter", which hides joins/parts/quits from people who haven't talked recently
2018-11-26 22:43:50	tunas	Oh, you mean telling the people that *do* chat?
2018-11-26 22:43:52	tunas	Got it :P
2018-11-26 22:43:57	tunas	Yeah, that's a good idea.
2018-11-26 22:46:15	KellerKatze	marlyn: You can pull in updates to the dotfiles from out git repo
2018-11-26 22:46:27	KellerKatze	Just git -C ~/.dotifles pull
2018-11-26 22:46:55	KellerKatze	but it might have a merge conflict if you have local changes in the same places that we changed
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2018-11-26 23:02:57	mal	Hello everyone! =)
2018-11-26 23:06:55	marlyn	Hi!
2018-11-26 23:14:51	lrvick	ohai
2018-11-26 23:15:56	mal	Getting here was pretty cool. =) Nice digs guys.
2018-11-26 23:16:18	mal	(and gals, ofc) =)
2018-11-26 23:16:32	lrvick	thanks. We are a fly trap for curious people
2018-11-26 23:17:10	mal	I was tempted to 'sudo' it before checking the source just coz ;p
2018-11-26 23:17:21	lrvick	;)
2018-11-26 23:17:37	lrvick	we try to beat paranoia into people
2018-11-26 23:17:57	lrvick	a lot of our regular are thought leaders in the infosec space.
2018-11-26 23:18:20	mal	Have plenty to share! =) Without the tech expertise, unfortunately. =(
2018-11-26 23:18:57	lrvick	Eh. everyone starts somewhere
2018-11-26 23:19:04	lrvick	for many people this is their first time using a terminal.
2018-11-26 23:19:16	mal	Ooh, do people like Moxy stop by? Hehehe
2018-11-26 23:19:46	lrvick	If he did I would get nothing done, and everything would revolve around me arguing with him.
2018-11-26 23:20:19	mal	Hahaha... Would be a bit entertaining for some1 like me tho
2018-11-26 23:20:28	lrvick	I am one of the the few in this space that highly dislikes moxie and is pretty vocal about it. I refuse to use Signal, etc.
2018-11-26 23:20:53	mal	Why is that, if you don't mind me asking?
2018-11-26 23:21:33	lrvick	I support open federated and decentralized services. Moxie built a walled garden and his excuses for doing so are bullshit. Worse: he refuses to support people that don't use google play services on their phones and submit to their tracking.
2018-11-26 23:21:51	mal	Ahh... Yes, I agree. Should be on F-droid
2018-11-26 23:21:54	lrvick	and forces people to use a phone number, making it hard to use for people that need true anonymity. journalists etc
2018-11-26 23:22:15	lrvick	He claims federated signal protocol is not doable... and yet matrix.org has done exactly that
2018-11-26 23:22:21	lrvick	which he has yet to comment on in public.
2018-11-26 23:22:57	mal	Those seem like reasonable arguments
2018-11-26 23:23:07	lrvick	Considering I am working on an open source security focused android rom... signal on it is a non starter because it has no google bits.
2018-11-26 23:23:54	mal	Something like CopperheadOS (R.I.P.)?
2018-11-26 23:24:13	lrvick	Yes! in fact I am actively talking to daniel micay, the creator of copperhead
2018-11-26 23:24:40	mal	Oh, is this the RattleSnake fork?
2018-11-26 23:25:34	lrvick	no but I have been talking to dan-v as well. 
2018-11-26 23:25:45	lrvick	dan-v of rattlesnake is coming at this from the other side.
2018-11-26 23:25:52	mal	That's really cool
2018-11-26 23:26:06	mal	My old trust Nexus5x is in search of a new ROM
2018-11-26 23:26:07	lrvick	I want deterministic accountable builds and a multi-party system to prove all builds are good.
2018-11-26 23:26:31	lrvick	as of yesterday I have working factory images for the pixel 3
2018-11-26 23:26:37	lrvick	https://github.com/hashbang/os
2018-11-26 23:26:50	lrvick	but yeah, this is aiming to be a replacement for copperheados
2018-11-26 23:27:07	lrvick	and I'll be incorperating micays latest work like hardened malloc etc.
2018-11-26 23:27:41	mal	I wish I understood those things in more detail, but I've followed quite a bit of CopperheadOS's run
2018-11-26 23:27:53	mal	Shame how it turned out
2018-11-26 23:28:37	lrvick	well in the end I think we are in a better position to publish trusted accountable roms. we are a not-for-profit incubator for privacy security and self hosting efforts
2018-11-26 23:28:43	lrvick	and we can all help audit everything
2018-11-26 23:29:26	lrvick	unlike copperhead, anyone will be able to self-flash #!os and get automatic updates for free
2018-11-26 23:29:47	mal	Any plans supporting older devices?
2018-11-26 23:30:16	lrvick	I have no intention to do so personally. I would much rather have a very very stable experience on the most secure devices.
2018-11-26 23:30:24	lrvick	but I'll accept contributions for older devices
2018-11-26 23:30:29	lrvick	I tried to make it super easy to add new devices
2018-11-26 23:30:35	lrvick	volunteer maintainers welcome
2018-11-26 23:30:38	mal	Ah. Understandable.
2018-11-26 23:31:05	mal	What's your opinion of LineageOS?
2018-11-26 23:32:14	lrvick	Unsigned builds, no binary blob accountability, and they turn off all the security features they don't understand.
2018-11-26 23:32:38	lrvick	they are generally very irresponsible and are way less secure than stock android 
2018-11-26 23:32:46	lrvick	Not an option for me
2018-11-26 23:33:02	mal	Guess my Nexus5x is doomed lol
2018-11-26 23:33:16	lrvick	I tried to get them to do better security and so has micay. They just dont care
2018-11-26 23:33:29	lrvick	It is a #yolo hobby project
2018-11-26 23:33:50	mal	Librem5 seems interesting though, isn't it?
2018-11-26 23:34:17	mal	Should be an easier platform to hack on for peeps like you, unless I have it wrong
2018-11-26 23:34:36	lrvick	On paper. i have talked to their CTO and confirmed it is pretty much entirely vaporware atm. But well intentioned
2018-11-26 23:34:53	lrvick	They are years from having the security protections AOSP already has
2018-11-26 23:35:25	mal	So I guess we're stuck with AOSP for a while then
2018-11-26 23:35:30	lrvick	yeeep
2018-11-26 23:35:52	lrvick	Micay, dan-v, and I all landed on that conclusion
2018-11-26 23:36:02	mal	I can see why the snail's pace re:sec is pissing you guys off
2018-11-26 23:36:38	lrvick	Re:sec?
2018-11-26 23:36:48	mal	oh, regarding the security
2018-11-26 23:36:53	lrvick	Ah yeah
2018-11-26 23:37:13	mal	my bad. too much anime
2018-11-26 23:37:18	mal	;p
2018-11-26 23:39:06	mal	Anyway, thanks for the info. =)
2018-11-26 23:43:24	lrvick	no problem! We welcome curiosity about this stuff.
2018-11-26 23:44:32	mal	At the moment I'm focused more on the traditional Linux side of things. Some admin stuff, maybe deeper understanding of OS design and implementation
2018-11-26 23:45:10	lrvick	Linux hardening is part of what I do for a living, and a lot of what we do around here
2018-11-26 23:45:15	lrvick	look over our shell-server repo
2018-11-26 23:45:26	lrvick	our entire infrastructure is user deployable
2018-11-26 23:45:38	lrvick	so you can spin up a shell server locally, hack on it, and submit PRs
2018-11-26 23:45:50	lrvick	changes merged to master are auto deployed.
2018-11-26 23:45:59	mal	Nice
2018-11-27 00:15:20	ryan	lrvick: are they tho
2018-11-27 00:15:28	ryan	I didn't think it was fixed yet
2018-11-27 00:15:43	ryan	(the cleanup from someone adding a PPA (?) to the servers)
2018-11-27 00:23:21	viaken	Probably not.
2018-11-27 00:23:24	viaken	So many things are broken. lol
2018-11-27 01:41:46	KellerKatze	ryan: I've made sure the PPA thing was gone, at least
2018-11-27 01:42:09	KellerKatze	but it probably fails to deploy currently because of the playbook hanging on the keyring generation step
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2018-11-27 03:24:47	marlyn	(I did notice that there's a few defunct systemctl units on this server)
2018-11-27 04:35:22	daurnimator	such as?
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2018-11-27 04:53:16	ahriman	hello all
2018-11-27 04:53:21	ryan	Greetings.
2018-11-27 05:21:18	ryan	so I want to run Ethernet cables to separate rooms in my apartment but am not allowed to drill through walls. What's the best way to run it in a way I won't trip on it, short of hanging it from the ceiling?
2018-11-27 05:24:17	daurnimator	ryan: don't. use power-over-ethernet adaptors
2018-11-27 05:24:26	daurnimator	uh, ethernet-over-power
2018-11-27 05:25:56	ryan	can I do multiple connections? I'd like it in two rooms preferably
2018-11-27 05:27:18	daurnimator	ryan: yeah I think you can just keep adding more https://amzn.to/2DZmptJ
2018-11-27 05:28:25	daurnimator	ryan: can also get with wifi built in: https://amzn.to/2SflOay
2018-11-27 05:28:56	ryan	alright i'll look into that as a long term solution but for something temporary i'm wondering if duct taping it to the floor is harmful
2018-11-27 05:29:14	ryan	i don't really have the money to dump into adapters right now
2018-11-27 05:29:44	daurnimator	ryan: but you have multiple 30m ethernet cables?
2018-11-27 05:29:55	ryan	yes
2018-11-27 05:30:03	daurnimator	hell. duct tape is like $10 a roll these days >.<
2018-11-27 05:30:05	ryan	work gave me literally tons as a gift
2018-11-27 05:30:10	daurnimator	I thought those adaptors were the cheap option :P
2018-11-27 05:30:14	ryan	my trunk is -full- of them
2018-11-27 05:31:46	ryan	i'd prefer to not use wifi because the reason I'm doing it is I have two switches, dozens of raspberry pis, and wanting to hook them up without buying tons of wifi adapters
2018-11-27 05:31:56	daurnimator	ryan: I used cable conduits at my place for the bits that I couldn't put under the floor. they were about $3 per 2 metres from the hardware store.
2018-11-27 05:32:56	ryan	i have some free time tomorrow, i'll go to some store and see-
2018-11-27 05:32:57	daurnimator	ryan: note that these ones provide a 3 port switch at each end: https://amzn.to/2QkdGYP
2018-11-27 05:33:01	ryan	hm, depending on how thick they are, can't shut the door
2018-11-27 05:33:09	ryan	not -too- much of a problem for now because i live alone
2018-11-27 05:34:47	daurnimator	ryan: I also got some of these for the really visible locations; https://www.bunnings.com.au/d-line-2m-white-mini-adhesive-cover-cable-management_p4430324
2018-11-27 05:35:28	Andrio	Ethernet over power is a thing?
2018-11-27 05:35:58	daurnimator	Andrio: see the amazon links above. I remember them hitting the market in 2005 or so. they have increased in quality and speed since.
2018-11-27 05:35:59	ryan	yeah it's been a thing for a while
2018-11-27 05:36:14	ryan	that was going to be my longer-term plan but it's a bit more expensive than lines & duct tape
2018-11-27 05:36:33	daurnimator	Andrio: hell. my in-laws got some without me even realising: foxtel were including them with the new iq boxes!
2018-11-27 05:36:45	daurnimator	(this was.... 3 years ago?)
2018-11-27 05:39:13	daurnimator	https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/171723
2018-11-27 05:39:29	daurnimator	yay. my memory was correct
2018-11-27 05:42:08	Andrio	Cool
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2018-11-27 06:25:42	marlyn	daurnimator: `systemctl list-unit-files --state=error --state=not-found --state=failed --all`
2018-11-27 06:26:11	marlyn	s/list-unit-files/list/units
2018-11-27 06:27:00	marlyn	(list-units, not list-unit-files. was going by memory)
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2018-11-27 09:32:43	--	Notice(github): [admin-tools] drGrove pushed 3 new commits to board-members-email: https://git.io/fpz0l
2018-11-27 09:32:43	--	Notice(github): admin-tools/board-members-email ff57485 Danny Grove: Add board@ alias, add missing emails for board members
2018-11-27 09:32:43	--	Notice(github): admin-tools/board-members-email 4d2023a Danny Grove: Remove data safety wrappers as we want scripts to break it they're wrong
2018-11-27 09:32:43	--	Notice(github): admin-tools/board-members-email 99bf97f Danny Grove: Merge branch 'board-members-email' of github.com:hashbang/admin-tools into board-members-email
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2018-11-27 12:24:45	EpicKitty	It'd take around 400 bananas to overdose on potassium
2018-11-27 12:25:01	viaken	That's a fair number of bananas.
2018-11-27 12:25:27	Trangar	Now I want bananas...
2018-11-27 12:26:14	EpicKitty	I think you'd end up with radiation issues first
2018-11-27 12:26:28	Trangar	I think you'd be full after like 10
2018-11-27 12:26:34	Trangar	Good luck with the remaining 390
2018-11-27 12:31:32	viaken	The radiation wouldn't be an issue: https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/10/18/yes-bananas-are-radioactive-and-yes-you-should-keep-eating-them-anyway/
2018-11-27 12:31:46	fwiw	banana!
2018-11-27 12:32:01	viaken	Or, well, it could be, but it wouldn't be the biggest issue.
2018-11-27 12:32:26	viaken	Likely, all that fiber would cause some sort of blockage.
2018-11-27 12:33:11	Trangar	You'd most likely die from overeating
2018-11-27 12:33:12	Trangar	Before anything else
2018-11-27 12:34:28	viaken	Is "overeating" a cause of death? I mean, in the short term.
2018-11-27 12:34:45	viaken	Apparently Brazil nuts are 40x more radioactive (by weight) than bananas.
2018-11-27 12:35:50	fwiw	> Banana Banana Banana
2018-11-27 12:35:51	Trangar	Deez nuts
2018-11-27 12:36:04	fwiw	https://blog.codinghorror.com/new-programming-jargon/
2018-11-27 12:36:21	fwiw	that's #24 on that list
2018-11-27 12:36:41	fwiw	>Placeholder text indicating that documentation is in progress or yet to be completed. 
2018-11-27 12:41:00	minerobber[team]	"alan, please add details"
2018-11-27 12:41:44	fwiw	banana banana banana banana banana
2018-11-27 13:10:16	tunas	minerobber[team]: There was an homage to that in a later game.
2018-11-27 13:10:23	tunas	I just can't remember where.
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2018-11-27 17:00:57	epimorphism	this is a cool irssi theme https://github.com/xero/dotfiles/blob/master/irssi/.irssi/neongold.theme
2018-11-27 17:03:39	dch	I like yoda conditions. 
2018-11-27 17:04:01	dch	I don't use them because evr LOC I write is perfect as if transcribed by an angel
2018-11-27 17:05:08	dch	but they're a simple method for catching errors right
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2018-11-27 17:22:54	trinary	sebboh - Me, to both questions
2018-11-27 17:23:29	sebboh	:D
2018-11-27 17:24:18	sebboh	Well given the strict vetting process that all #! members must go through, I'm all in
2018-11-27 17:25:02	trinary	It makes it a little less random
2018-11-27 17:25:43	trinary	The only other location I can give you, is a Discord media download link
2018-11-27 17:25:44	trinary	._.
2018-11-27 17:26:00	trinary	(That's how I got my first uboot)
2018-11-27 17:26:54	sebboh	but you built the "2A" uboot?  from what source?
2018-11-27 17:27:17	trinary	I built that from the anarsoul branch I linked you
2018-11-27 17:27:31	trinary	Who built your entire image, so you already trust him
2018-11-27 17:33:40	sebboh	:D
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2018-11-27 19:50:09	minerobber[team]	tunas: I believe the remaster included "Any details yet, Alan?"
2018-11-27 19:51:43	tunas	minerobber[team]: Yeah!
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2018-11-28 01:13:16	steveg	so cool, I can't believe i got free server access today :D
2018-11-28 01:24:20	KellerKatze	steveg: And every other day too
2018-11-28 02:07:07	daurnimator	except that one day
2018-11-28 02:28:39	 *	KellerKatze nods
2018-11-28 02:28:50	KellerKatze	daurnimator: I thought we weren't talking about that one day?
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2018-11-28 08:46:43	tseng	daurnimator: what one day was that?
2018-11-28 08:47:09	ryan	we swore to never speak of it again
2018-11-28 08:47:11	ryan	so much blood
2018-11-28 08:48:03	tseng	it's already been spoken of, now
2018-11-28 08:48:43	ryan	yes and that's all we'll say of it
2018-11-28 08:51:02	tseng	oh really?
2018-11-28 08:51:17	 *	tseng picks up ryan's favorite pillow and farts into it
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2018-11-28 08:52:53	tseng	enjoy the trace remnants of my earlier meal at mcdonald's
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2018-11-28 10:30:47	viaken	https://github.com/kelseyhightower/nocode
2018-11-28 10:40:05	napcae	contributing: you don't. *looks at issues and PR tab*
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2018-11-28 11:22:02	viaken	I don't think I've ever seen spam in GitHub Issues before.
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2018-11-28 14:01:21	napcae	it was a thing for a while iirc
2018-11-28 14:10:59	viaken	How does one find C libraries? Like, say I want a library that ...I dunno, does some sort of NLP. How does an experienced C programmer find something like that? Just a search for "nlp c library"?
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2018-11-28 14:18:29	reynir	libnlp
2018-11-28 14:18:34	reynir	i dunno
2018-11-28 14:28:52	fwiw	google I guess
2018-11-28 14:29:03	fwiw	github search too
2018-11-28 14:43:42	MaxLeiter	if it’s something complicated you can look up research related to it and look for libraries based on that 
2018-11-28 14:43:49	viaken	gotcha
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2018-11-28 14:44:49	MaxLeiter	Or look at other projecgs
2018-11-28 14:46:03	viaken	https://gitote.in/ - New source hosting platform
2018-11-28 14:46:20	benharri	better than sr.ht?
2018-11-28 14:46:23	viaken	No clue
2018-11-28 14:46:34	viaken	But probably not. It's another fork of Gogs.
2018-11-28 14:47:05	viaken	Is sr.ht self-hostable currently?
2018-11-28 14:47:14	benharri	heh kinda
2018-11-28 14:47:29	benharri	packaging is still kinda a mess
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2018-11-28 14:47:57	benharri	i was looking at setting an instance up for tilde.team
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2018-11-28 21:01:24	viaken	https://talent.works/blog/2018/01/08/the-science-of-the-job-search-part-i-13-data-backed-ways-to-win/ - So, almost every single thing on this "can control" list is something I've done wrong, apparently.
2018-11-28 21:03:03	viaken	I hate buzzwords, I don't like to put down numbers for things I've achieved, I've stressed my cooperative nature, and I've used personal pronouns.
2018-11-28 21:03:33	viaken	So...yay.
2018-11-28 21:12:41	tseng	er..
2018-11-28 21:13:08	tseng	"Factors you can't control" "#3: Go back to school"?
2018-11-28 21:13:20	tseng	I'm pretty sure that factor is in your control.
2018-11-28 21:13:40	tseng	it may not be 'easy', but it's something in your control
2018-11-28 21:14:39	tseng	Yuck. "#1: Be a woman. [+48% BOOST]"
2018-11-28 21:14:56	viaken	Yeah :\
2018-11-28 21:17:22	tseng	I have a better idea..
2018-11-28 21:17:38	tseng	1: Fire these hiring managers
2018-11-28 21:18:31	tseng	Like, three of these things on the "in control" list are reasonable.
2018-11-28 21:19:10	tseng	(Key Skills, Apply in the first 4 days/between 6am-10am/mondays)
2018-11-28 21:19:24	tseng	okay, so four.
2018-11-28 21:19:48	tseng	The rest are basically bullet points on the checklist for diagnosis of NPD. :/
2018-11-28 21:20:56	tseng	"Be older or younger" and "Be a woman" <- these criteria are technically illegal
2018-11-28 21:26:39	stinethebean	degrees don't actually mean that much...in the tech world anyway. 
2018-11-28 21:27:33	stinethebean	Ashley and Dana are male names too though....
2018-11-28 21:27:42	tseng	and it makes sense, most people who get their foot in tend to be narcissists.
2018-11-28 21:27:45	stinethebean	more likely it's a female, but...still
2018-11-28 21:28:48	stinethebean	also there are names that lean male but are can be female too. so that's a dumb factor on this site. 
2018-11-28 21:28:57	tseng	and this probably has a lot to do with why so many big name companies bungle up so much
2018-11-28 21:29:10	tseng	this is their hiring criteria
2018-11-28 21:29:20	stinethebean	if someone hires you based off your name, i would advise to not work for them
2018-11-28 21:29:27	tseng	why would you ever expect good results from this?
2018-11-28 21:30:29	stinethebean	buzzwords are obnoxious. 
2018-11-28 21:30:49	tseng	yes, they are... and sadly one of the more forgivable things on this list
2018-11-28 21:31:11	stinethebean	i agree that applying early on in the week and early on since the job was posted does make sense. 
2018-11-28 21:31:16	tseng	and just further shows that the hiring manager is an idior
2018-11-28 21:31:22	tseng	s/idior/idiot
2018-11-28 21:31:38	stinethebean	don't be a team player? wtf
2018-11-28 21:31:43	tseng	"wow, they're narcissistic and use the latest buzzwords, this will help our company a lot"
2018-11-28 21:32:16	 *	tseng prepares a cover letter
2018-11-28 21:32:59	stinethebean	i'm sorry but...you need a mix of individual accomplishments and team accomplishments. i currently work with someone on my team who is not really a team player and it's really frustrating. 
2018-11-28 21:33:16	tseng	"Lorem Ipsum Convergence Big Data Social Networking Cloud IoT WebUI 5G"
2018-11-28 21:33:29	 *	tseng applies to Facebook
2018-11-28 21:33:36	stinethebean	leadership words are good though. 
2018-11-28 21:33:50	tseng	I have to disagree there.
2018-11-28 21:34:18	stinethebean	only if they are true
2018-11-28 21:34:58	stinethebean	i think i had a "working knowledge" skill section on my resume.
2018-11-28 21:35:12	tseng	Granted, there's nothing wrong with using these words, but they're not "leadership" words
2018-11-28 21:35:29	tseng	It's just called having a vocabulary.
2018-11-28 21:35:53	tseng	The part I sort of take issue with is this whole idea that everyone must show "leadership traits"
2018-11-28 21:36:14	tseng	I wouldn't dare assemble a team full of "leaders"
2018-11-28 21:36:20	tseng	it would be doomed to fail
2018-11-28 21:36:41	stinethebean	right, that's where i'm like only put in things of leadership you actually did. not being a leader is a good thing too. 
2018-11-28 21:36:45	tseng	you don't need everyone to be a leader
2018-11-28 21:37:19	tseng	Really, reading this list makes me understand why workplace environments like Amazon's exist
2018-11-28 21:40:26	tseng	I guess it's easy not to care about everyone being a 'leader' when you're against team players.
2018-11-28 21:40:40	tseng	That's just stupid
2018-11-28 21:41:22	tseng	I, likewise, work with one person who is not a 'team player'; they are a 'leader'. But their job is to be a team player.
2018-11-28 21:42:06	tseng	If you relieve this person, you don't dare show up to work early, or they'll leave and mark their card for the full shift.
2018-11-28 21:43:21	tseng	They boss everyone around and change the instructions for everything to their liking, they ignore the actual leader's instructions.
2018-11-28 21:43:39	tseng	That person would fit this list well
2018-11-28 21:43:49	tseng	But they are not the sort of person you ever want to work with
2018-11-28 21:44:27	tseng	And of course, anything the team does, she's more than happy to take all the credit for.
2018-11-28 21:45:12	tseng	Thankfully, I don't expect her to last much longer.
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2018-11-28 23:18:29	lrvick	KellerKatze: is EpicKitty ?
2018-11-28 23:18:48	KellerKatze	lrvick: What do you mean?
2018-11-28 23:18:54	EpicKitty	Who the fuck pinged me?
2018-11-28 23:18:57	KellerKatze	Is EpicKitty what?
2018-11-28 23:19:05	KellerKatze	EpicKitty: I was wondering that too
2018-11-28 23:19:05	EpicKitty	You wot m8
2018-11-28 23:19:58	lrvick	okay. so not the same person. probably
2018-11-28 23:20:05	EpicKitty	No
2018-11-28 23:20:08	EpicKitty	I'm me
2018-11-28 23:20:16	EpicKitty	Ask ryan who I am
2018-11-28 23:20:17	lrvick	though at least one of you I suspect has SPD so maybe you are the same person and don't know it.
2018-11-28 23:20:28	lrvick	;D
2018-11-28 23:20:57	ryan	lrvick: he's one of my lovers from Esper
2018-11-28 23:30:43	KellerKatze	lrvick: Oh, you were asking whether I am EpicKitty; no I'm not
2018-11-28 23:30:58	KellerKatze	KellerTest is my only suckpuppet account on #!  :P
2018-11-28 23:34:14	lrvick	so we have epic kitty and basement cat. I accept this.
2018-11-28 23:56:55	marlyn	a diverse feline portfolio is important
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2018-11-29 00:21:39	viaken	stinethebean: Ashley's not been male in a while: https://api.genderize.io/?name=ashley
2018-11-29 00:21:47	viaken	Same for Dana
2018-11-29 00:22:34	stinethebean	i just watched a new tv show where a guy our age was named Ashley, Ash for short. I don't think it's ever been very common. But it happens. 
2018-11-29 00:22:45	viaken	Fair enough
2018-11-29 00:29:09	viaken	tseng: I agree with most of what you've said.
2018-11-29 00:43:26	daurnimator	Lindsay was one that seemed to suddenly change gender
2018-11-29 00:43:35	daurnimator	Lesley too
2018-11-29 00:43:53	daurnimator	All the male lesleys are now >50
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2018-11-29 06:26:23	--	Mode #! [-o odie] by ryan
2018-11-29 06:52:50	ryan	so for some reason my battery seems go down from 10% to 5% and stay there forever
2018-11-29 06:52:56	ryan	which means i don't get the <5% notification
2018-11-29 06:53:53	G-man	Technical answer: It's angry 
2018-11-29 06:54:45	ryan	"hey i have half an hour left" "hey i have 18 minutes left" "hey i have 28 minutes left"
2018-11-29 06:54:47	ryan	why computer
2018-11-29 06:54:49	ryan	why do you hate me
2018-11-29 06:55:16	G-man	Have you considered checking the clock feature 
2018-11-29 06:55:35	ryan	i'm fairly confident my clock isn't changing, yes
2018-11-29 06:55:51	G-man	hm
2018-11-29 06:56:03	ryan	it's mad because i call it 'the craptop'
2018-11-29 06:56:10	ryan	which to be fair i'd be mad too
2018-11-29 06:56:12	G-man	apologize 
2018-11-29 06:56:44	G-man	apologize to it, shortymcshortsh*t. its mean to call things names 
2018-11-29 06:56:56	ryan	make me, daddy
2018-11-29 06:57:05	ryan	also no
2018-11-29 06:57:07	G-man	ryan no
2018-11-29 06:57:09	ryan	it deserves it
2018-11-29 06:58:04	G-man	it's seen your crimes and is rebelling 
2018-11-29 06:58:27	ryan	then i will hang it from the ceiling by the write-protect screw
2018-11-29 06:58:35	ryan	and make it watch as i replace it with the clusterfuck
2018-11-29 06:59:07	G-man	stop it. get some help.
2018-11-29 07:00:54	ryan	fight me
2018-11-29 07:01:11	G-man	meet me in the pit
2018-11-29 07:01:26	ryan	is that your new name for Florida now
2018-11-29 07:01:43	G-man	well i mean, it could be
2018-11-29 07:01:51	G-man	there are gator pits
2018-11-29 07:02:41	ryan	fun
2018-11-29 07:04:37	fosslinux	lol
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2018-11-29 09:00:40	reynir	Why does the default weechat configuration come with so much "shit" on #!?
2018-11-29 09:01:23	 *	slipxy points to ryan
2018-11-29 09:44:24	 *	tseng claps
2018-11-29 09:44:46	tseng	it indeed comes with a lot of shit. as does tmux'
2018-11-29 09:46:06	tseng	just about everything in .dotfiles does, for that matter. ironically, weechat's config is the one i've left that way
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2018-11-29 10:18:49	reynir	Me too, though mostly because I don't know how to get rid of the crap heh
2018-11-29 10:19:06	tseng	i don't mind it, myself
2018-11-29 10:19:22	tseng	tmux' 'vi-mode' was a nasty and unwelcome surprise though
2018-11-29 10:19:24	reynir	(I'm sorry if this comes off as really unappreciative btw - it's not meant that way <3)
2018-11-29 10:19:40	tseng	but that wasn't so much anyone's fault here as it was upstream for tmux
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2018-11-29 14:07:15	KellerKatze	reynir: https://github.com/hashbang/dotfiles is the repo, you can send pull requests or create issues.
2018-11-29 14:08:16	KellerKatze	AFAIK, ryan did most of the default weechat config, though if you want to know why it's that way, you might want a more precise qualifier than “shit”
2018-11-29 14:22:10	reynir	there's just a lot of added bells and whistles
2018-11-29 14:41:48	napcae	shit sounds really precise to me though :>
2018-11-29 14:41:49	 *	napcae runs
2018-11-29 14:42:43	napcae	I have to agree with reynir, the configuration feels imposed upon the user - especially if you're not familiar with wechat like me
2018-11-29 14:43:36	rafasc	hmm.. User creation script failed
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2018-11-29 15:23:04	KellerKatze	rafasc: What do you mean?  Can you pastbin its complete output, error messages included?
2018-11-29 15:24:41	KellerKatze	napcae: It's meant to be a more user-friendly default than weechat's default, but it's also very much meant for users to build on or replace; there's nothing that says you have to use the weechat config at all (or even the default dotfiles period)
2018-11-29 15:26:26	rafasc	KellerKatze: Creating your account... Account creation failed: { User creation script failed }
2018-11-29 15:26:48	rafasc	but it also fails If I use the api directly.
2018-11-29 15:29:03	KellerKatze	Interesting
2018-11-29 15:29:25	rafasc	https://ptpb.pw/KiD6
2018-11-29 15:29:47	ryan	I think I added colors and a couple aliases to weechat
2018-11-29 15:29:49	rafasc	do you have access to stderr from the server?
2018-11-29 15:29:56	ryan	Maybe highmon
2018-11-29 15:31:23	rafasc	I looked at the code, and it prints some debug information to stderr, but I am busy (lazy) to spin my own to look at it.
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2018-11-29 15:33:33	rafasc	currentUsers > maxUsers, so maybe all servers are capped?
2018-11-29 15:33:42	ryan	i think we took down that restriction
2018-11-29 15:33:50	ryan	otherwise how could it ever have gotten to this point?
2018-11-29 15:34:33	rafasc	you could've reinstated the cap, without booting logged in users.
2018-11-29 15:35:23	KellerKatze	rafasc: The restiction isn't about logged-in users
2018-11-29 15:35:27	rafasc	or have a weird system where some users don't count towards the cap. IDK. 
2018-11-29 15:35:41	KellerKatze	ryan: No, the restriction was just never enforced in LDAP
2018-11-29 15:36:05	rafasc	the only thing I do know, it that I am having trouble creating a user. :D
2018-11-29 15:36:10	ryan	oh that's weird
2018-11-29 15:36:14	KellerKatze	and I just checked, looks like slapd isn't letting the provisor user modift LDAP records
2018-11-29 15:36:18	ryan	^
2018-11-29 15:36:28	ryan	stronger /authentication/ required
2018-11-29 15:37:09	ryan	https://github.com/hashbang/hashbang.sh/blob/master/server.py#L25
2018-11-29 15:37:11	KellerKatze	The user password for provisor is correct
2018-11-29 15:37:20	ryan	yes but the transport could be insecure
2018-11-29 15:37:29	ryan	it uses ldap:// instead of ldaps:// by the look of it
2018-11-29 15:37:45	KellerKatze	Oh, FFS
2018-11-29 15:39:07	rafasc	another thing I noticed, server/stats/ is reporting mismatched ips.
2018-11-29 15:39:12	KellerKatze	Mmmh, no, Provisor implements StartTLS, so that should be fine
2018-11-29 15:39:49	KellerKatze	rafasc: What do you mean?  IPs that don't match the hostname?
2018-11-29 15:40:08	rafasc	x.x.x.222 vs x.x.x.224
2018-11-29 15:40:18	rafasc	when I ping the hostname
2018-11-29 15:42:22	ryan	hm, wait
2018-11-29 15:42:50	KellerKatze	ryan: BTW, “Strong(er) authentication required” usually means that the LDAP client didn't bind (i.e. authenticate with credentials) before attempting a privileged operation
2018-11-29 15:43:05	ryan	oh, no, outdated file
2018-11-29 15:43:05	KellerKatze	not that it's not using TLS
2018-11-29 15:43:07	ryan	nvm ignore me
2018-11-29 15:43:27	KellerKatze	lrvick: Did you change slapd's config when you migrated it to a new host?
2018-11-29 15:43:31	ryan	KellerKatze: right, my point was that I saw "ldap://" and thought that authentication had to be over a stronger transport
2018-11-29 15:44:56	viaken	ryan: There are often ways to change/reset the battery percent calculator. I don't recall any of them now, though.
2018-11-29 15:45:00	ryan	it looks right, the password's in the config file, 
2018-11-29 15:45:11	viaken	KellerKatze: Can you point me to where slapd is launched and/or configured? I can't find it in our repos.
2018-11-29 15:45:21	ryan	no changes to provisor so that wouldn't cause it
2018-11-29 15:45:26	ryan	viaken: docker-slapd I'd assume
2018-11-29 15:45:32	viaken	hm
2018-11-29 15:45:45	viaken	Ok, I'll dig around in there again.
2018-11-29 15:47:17	rafasc	I have the midas touch. But instead of turning things into gold, they break before me.
2018-11-29 15:47:44	KellerKatze	rafasc: Can you retry?
2018-11-29 15:47:59	rafasc	sucess
2018-11-29 15:48:08	KellerKatze	And yes, it's totally real; I have something similar, I call it beta-tester's syndrome
2018-11-29 15:49:40	ryan	I call it Trangar-ification
2018-11-29 15:49:53	KellerKatze	ryan, viaken : Looks like the connection from Provisor got somehow deauthenticated, which is weird; I would expect that if the connection was broken, but at that point it shouldn't auto-reconnect and we should be seeing a different error
2018-11-29 15:50:27	KellerKatze	So restarting the service fixed it, but I can't tell why the issue occured in the first place
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2018-11-29 15:51:44	ryan	if the library does connection pooling but only authenticates once that might be why
2018-11-29 15:53:23	napcae	KellerKatze: no worries, I don't have too strong feelings about it anyway
2018-11-29 15:53:46	rafasc	can someone give me a screenshot of what the default config for weechat looks like in the shell server?
2018-11-29 15:53:53	KellerKatze	ryan: No, provisor doesn't do connection pooling; also, if that was the cause, we would be seeing it in 1/nth of user creation attempts, instead of 100% failures after the service had been running for a long time (and 0% failures when freshly started)
2018-11-29 15:54:04	rafasc	I have a feeling mine isn't rendering correctly.
2018-11-29 15:55:06	napcae	rafasc: https://github.com/hashbang/dotfiles/tree/master/weechat/.weechat ?
2018-11-29 15:55:29	ryan	rafasc: can you provide a screenshot? all i've got is my own setup which is a lot more custom
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2018-11-29 15:56:59	rafasc	https://ptpb.pw/uFeN
2018-11-29 15:58:20	ryan	well outside of the fact you're limited to 16 colors, that looks normal
2018-11-29 15:58:28	ryan	...
2018-11-29 15:58:29	ryan	8 colors?
2018-11-29 15:58:43	ryan	you'd normally at least get the midrange grays in there.
2018-11-29 16:00:21	KellerKatze	rafasc: http://to1.hashbang.sh:8088/weechat_default.png
2018-11-29 16:03:08	rafasc	Oh, got it. I am running this inside a systemd-nspawn instance. It has TERM set to xterm.
2018-11-29 16:03:25	rafasc	already fixed it. I forgot about it.
2018-11-29 16:03:37	rafasc	thanks. :)
2018-11-29 16:04:38	KellerKatze	rafasc: You mean, you are running the SSH client inside a container?  :D
2018-11-29 16:06:56	rafasc	yep. I don't have much time to audit what's being done, So at least there's a extra layer of protection.
2018-11-29 16:07:30	 *	ryan adds "ssh" to list of untrusted software...
2018-11-29 16:07:42	rafasc	also, I wanted to run curl hashbang just to see the message.
2018-11-29 16:08:09	ryan	oh did you first curl the https version then? the message is on http
2018-11-29 16:08:35	rafasc	no, I didn't run anything at first.
2018-11-29 16:09:14	KellerKatze	rafasc: If you ran the script, that's fair  :)
2018-11-29 16:09:21	rafasc	lrvick: introduced me to the irc server after discussing some topics over at freenode.#git
2018-11-29 16:09:35	ryan	i thought i did
2018-11-29 16:09:46	ryan	or i invited ekleog
2018-11-29 16:10:17	rafasc	It was one of you guys. I remember both being there at the same time.
2018-11-29 16:10:44	rafasc	fair call though. My memory might be fuzzy.
2018-11-29 16:12:13	rafasc	then got introduced to the community, saw the site, went directly to the source code but bailed because I was too lazy to look at it.
2018-11-29 16:13:58	rafasc	then I think I talked with ryan about weird things you can do by detecting if the request is being curled or piped, only to be notified there was a message warning about it.
2018-11-29 16:14:17	ryan	yea i talk about that a lot
2018-11-29 16:14:19	ryan	fun stuff
2018-11-29 16:14:25	rafasc	got curious wanted to try :)
2018-11-29 16:16:46	rafasc	would be fun if you could select the ' sh <(curl ...) ' text but intercept the cut and paste and make some snark comments about not copy-pasting urls from the internet.
2018-11-29 16:17:12	ryan	hm
2018-11-29 16:17:17	ryan	could probably bug jwheare about it
2018-11-29 16:17:28	ryan	i know IRCCloud has an on-copy-change-content mechanism.
2018-11-29 16:19:02	rafasc	copy pasting commands from webpages is super scary. Especially if you also copy the new line feed char.
2018-11-29 16:19:44	ryan	IIRC if you do a multiline paste in zsh, it won't do anything until you press enter
2018-11-29 16:19:52	ryan	but once you do it can act like multiple commands
2018-11-29 16:20:19	ryan	heh, funny enough, I don't think you /can/ select the stuff on our website.
2018-11-29 16:20:44	rafasc	no, you cannot.
2018-11-29 16:21:01	ryan	good. promote people typing the stuff in themselves, 2018!
2018-11-29 16:21:33	rafasc	the problem with that, is that the person doesn't learn anything.
2018-11-29 16:22:10	rafasc	other than "stupid website doesn't let me copy paste, sigh i'll type it myself"
2018-11-29 16:22:18	ryan	yea that's true
2018-11-29 16:23:07	rafasc	for bash, you can get into the habit of pasting into the editor: C-x-e
2018-11-29 16:23:32	polprog	wow
2018-11-29 16:23:34	polprog	thats neat
2018-11-29 16:23:37	polprog	it just ran emacs
2018-11-29 16:23:50	polprog	why didnt i learn about this ealier
2018-11-29 16:23:54	rafasc	polprog: it runs your editor of choice.
2018-11-29 16:24:11	polprog	nice
2018-11-29 16:24:25	rafasc	I was about to say that if you don't like what was pasted, you could exit with :cq
2018-11-29 16:24:46	rafasc	so it doesn't run the command. But that's in my case, because I have editor set to vim
2018-11-29 16:25:09	rafasc	go look which weird combination makes emacs exit with error. :)
2018-11-29 16:25:34	polprog	yeah if you dont save the file it wont run the command
2018-11-29 16:25:43	polprog	c-x c-c
2018-11-29 16:26:03	polprog	as opposed to c-x c-s c-x c-c thats save and exit (separate)
2018-11-29 16:26:28	polprog	sweet
2018-11-29 16:26:29	polprog	https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/bashref.html#Miscellaneous-Commands
2018-11-29 16:26:33	polprog	rtfm, i did not
2018-11-29 16:27:48	rafasc	polprog: in vim, :cq is a sequence that exits the editor with an error code. So even if you save for some reason, and want to exit without running, you can do it.
2018-11-29 16:28:00	polprog	til
2018-11-29 16:28:13	polprog	i tend to use vim in console and emacs under X so i have to get around both of them
2018-11-29 16:28:49	rafasc	I only have time to learn about 1 crazy editor.
2018-11-29 16:29:56	rafasc	that being said, I've heard org-mode is nice.
2018-11-29 16:30:18	fwiw	true
2018-11-29 16:30:21	polprog	thats, pretty impressive
2018-11-29 16:30:47	polprog	but id have to use emacs as my operating system first
2018-11-29 16:31:04	viaken	Should we set up a testing bot that creates a few users every now and then, just to make sure it works?
2018-11-29 16:32:23	ryan	i'm hoping we can mark this up as 'bit rot blame the universe'
2018-11-29 16:32:38	rafasc	or at least just test the endpoint.
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2018-11-29 17:46:07	viaken	org-mode is very nice
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2018-11-29 18:24:54	rafasc	are user@hashbang.sh emails working?
2018-11-29 18:25:17	KellerKatze	rafasc: Should be
2018-11-29 18:25:24	ryan	Should be, it'll be delivered to your homeserver
2018-11-29 18:25:37	ryan	Was working on Monday when I got 50 Cyber Monday emails
2018-11-29 18:27:03	rafasc	do I need to configure something extra?
2018-11-29 18:27:51	rafasc	I sent something to myself from my email account, And got nothing.
2018-11-29 18:28:00	ryan	Oh. Hm.
2018-11-29 18:28:05	ryan	I think I know the issue
2018-11-29 18:28:44	ryan	https://github.com/hashbang/dotfiles/pull/47
2018-11-29 18:30:10	rafasc	but that applies on sent emails, the issue I am having is on the receiving end.
2018-11-29 18:31:13	ryan	Oh, thought "sent something to myself" was in Mutt
2018-11-29 18:31:24	ryan	It might take a while to receive it.
2018-11-29 18:32:12	rafasc	can you give me an estimate on how long the while might be?
2018-11-29 18:33:02	rafasc	more than 10minutes?
2018-11-29 18:33:10	ryan	Not sure, haven't timed it to high accuracy, but I doubt it's ever been more than an hour b 
2018-11-29 18:33:19	ryan	Not sure what part is slow, though. 
2018-11-29 18:34:12	rafasc	one hour? wow
2018-11-29 18:35:31	ryan	I might look into our setup later
2018-11-29 18:35:51	KellerKatze	rafasc: Where are you expecting mail from?  FWIW, it's usually much faster than that
2018-11-29 18:36:38	KellerKatze	But yeah, email delivery is sometimes slow, but that's not specififc to #!; greylisting, temporary failures, ...
2018-11-29 18:37:06	rafasc	send one from my gmail account, and another should be coming from a nick I tried to register on freenode using the hashbang email
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2018-11-29 19:14:27	rafasc	yeah, there's definitely something wrong with inbound email
2018-11-29 19:15:04	rafasc	outbound works. Inbound, even from rafasc@hashbang.sh to itself is not working.
2018-11-29 19:17:11	rafasc	mutt is also complaining about "GPGME: CMS protocol not available" 
2018-11-29 19:17:18	rafasc	but I don't think it's related
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2018-11-29 19:27:52	reynir	can you sen a mail to reynir@hashbang.sh ?
2018-11-29 19:32:32	rafasc	it says email sent.
2018-11-29 19:33:09	reynir	I received it
2018-11-29 19:36:14	rafasc	can you send me one?
2018-11-29 19:36:33	reynir	yes, just sent a reply
2018-11-29 19:38:00	rafasc	no idea where they're going. :(
2018-11-29 19:48:12	reynir	lemme check
2018-11-29 19:49:22	reynir	$HOME/Mail ?
2018-11-29 19:49:45	rafasc	yes
2018-11-29 19:49:56	reynir	eh 
2018-11-29 19:50:26	reynir	wish I had root access now :P
2018-11-29 19:50:36	fosslinux	i just got benharri to jump on
2018-11-29 19:50:43	fosslinux	nvm
2018-11-29 19:50:53	fosslinux	he's going to try and fix it a bit later
2018-11-29 19:50:59	rafasc	feels weird being on the other side.
2018-11-29 19:51:07	fosslinux	?
2018-11-29 19:51:09	benharri	?
2018-11-29 19:51:22	reynir	?
2018-11-29 19:51:31	fosslinux	lol benharri
2018-11-29 19:51:33	rafasc	saying that usually, I am the one on the other side with root access to debug stuff.
2018-11-29 19:51:44	fosslinux	so what has happened is that inbound email isn't working
2018-11-29 19:51:50	fosslinux	outbound works
2018-11-29 19:51:55	benharri	yes i saw the scrollback
2018-11-29 19:51:55	fosslinux	19:14:27           rafasc | yeah, there's definitely something wrong with inbound email
2018-11-29 19:51:59	fosslinux	19:15:04           rafasc | outbound works. Inbound, even from rafasc@hashbang.sh to itself is not working.
2018-11-29 19:52:00	benharri	already saw it
2018-11-29 19:52:03	reynir	yes, I understood that, I just didn't want to break the chain :P
2018-11-29 19:52:05	benharri	you don't have to paste it again
2018-11-29 19:52:07	fosslinux	cool
2018-11-29 19:52:14	fosslinux	yep
2018-11-29 19:52:30	benharri	lol you don't have to ping me on a different network first :P
2018-11-29 19:52:44	fosslinux	:D
2018-11-29 19:52:47	reynir	well, inboun worked for me from rafasc@hashbang.sh to reynir@hashbang.sh
2018-11-29 19:52:58	rafasc	benharri: but I emailed reynir and he received. So this is something with my account.
2018-11-29 19:53:11	reynir	benharri: oh hi, have you heard about this hashbang email issue? ;)
2018-11-29 19:53:47	benharri	rafasc: are you running mutt in the default tmux session?
2018-11-29 19:53:50	benharri	try restarting it
2018-11-29 19:53:50	fosslinux	lmao
2018-11-29 19:54:03	benharri	there was a strange thing with firejail that has caused problems before
2018-11-29 19:54:21	ryan	#blamefirejail
2018-11-29 19:54:32	rafasc	already restarted multiple times today.
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2018-11-29 19:54:48	ryan	rafasc: which is your homeserver?
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2018-11-29 19:55:24	rafasc	ny
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2018-11-29 19:55:59	ryan	alright, one sec
2018-11-29 19:56:14	ryan	O.o
2018-11-29 19:56:16	ryan	it says da1
2018-11-29 19:57:09	ryan	rafasc: are you sure you didn't pick da1?
2018-11-29 19:57:16	rafasc	I had issues creating the account. Maybe something went wrong.
2018-11-29 19:57:33	fosslinux	i got an email i sent to myself
2018-11-29 19:57:34	ryan	i can probably update it but it does say da1 in LDAP
2018-11-29 19:57:40	benharri	mail might be waiting for you on da1
2018-11-29 19:58:01	ryan	although you don't have a $HOME on da1 so you might not even have the mail.
2018-11-29 19:59:48	rafasc	would it be worth login in to da1?
2018-11-29 20:00:07	rafasc	email probably got dropped though.
2018-11-29 20:00:14	Trangar	ryan: I feel honored
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2018-11-29 20:01:21	ryan	oh that does work
2018-11-29 20:01:23	ryan	whoops
2018-11-29 20:02:42	ryan	i thought it would just make $HOME but no it went through the whole login process
2018-11-29 20:05:16	rafasc	ryan: should I try login into da1 and see how it goes?
2018-11-29 20:05:46	ryan	i just accidentally made you a setup on da1, sorry :P
2018-11-29 20:05:51	ryan	so mail should be delivered thre
2018-11-29 20:05:53	ryan	there*
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2018-11-29 20:08:59	rafasc	any chance you can change it to ny?
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2018-11-29 20:13:35	ryan	probably, let me go beat LDAP into submission
2018-11-29 20:14:21	ryan	oh, no, i don't have the password setup back up yet. a different admin might be able to
2018-11-29 20:14:24	ryan	or later
2018-11-29 20:14:58	benharri	i can do it when i get home but that' probably not going to be for another 4 or 5 hours at least
2018-11-29 20:17:49	rafasc	benharri: Tt's not critical, do it when can. Thanks in advance.
2018-11-29 20:18:01	benharri	heh ok sounds good
2018-11-29 20:18:03	benharri	that reminds me
2018-11-29 20:18:11	benharri	i should change my homeserver to to1 while i'm at it
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2018-11-29 21:26:03	fwiw	hi KellerKatze 
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2018-11-30 05:12:04	--	Channel #!: 289 nicks (0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 289 normals)
2018-11-30 05:12:08	--	Channel created on Wed, 28 Nov 2018 09:23:50
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2018-11-30 06:25:06	fosslinux	da heck
2018-11-30 06:25:10	fosslinux	what happened
2018-11-30 06:26:53	tseng	the future
2018-11-30 06:29:38	marlyn	?
2018-11-30 06:29:41	fosslinux	?
2018-11-30 06:30:12	slipxy	where the femmebots at
2018-11-30 06:30:14	marlyn	Ah, I see, I've opened up "ed" again
2018-11-30 06:30:47	fosslinux	slipxy: you're slipyx on #team?
2018-11-30 06:30:59	fosslinux	on tildevers
2018-11-30 06:31:26	slipxy	thaaaaats me
2018-11-30 06:31:31	fosslinux	:D
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2018-11-30 07:26:24	hteso	sa
2018-11-30 07:26:28	hteso	exit
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2018-11-30 09:12:15	badgirl	hi guys
2018-11-30 09:12:47	badgirl	i'm having a problem
2018-11-30 09:14:16	reynir	hi
2018-11-30 09:17:57	badgirl	i cant send email
2018-11-30 09:19:10	badgirl	unable to create o directory /home/badgirl/.nano 
2018-11-30 09:19:15	reynir	can you  try 
2018-11-30 09:19:17	reynir	oh
2018-11-30 09:19:52	reynir	what's the permissions for /home/badgirl/, and does /home/badgirl/.nano exist
2018-11-30 09:20:42	badgirl	default permission
2018-11-30 09:23:16	reynir	you could try use a different editor
2018-11-30 09:23:29	reynir	btw that was two questions
2018-11-30 09:46:52	KellerKatze	fwiw: Hi
2018-11-30 09:48:14	reynir	hi basementcat
2018-11-30 09:48:30	KellerKatze	Hi reynir :3
2018-11-30 09:49:11	KellerKatze	rafasc1: Yes, email is delivered to the host you selected when creating the account; I could move your mail to ny1 if you want.
2018-11-30 09:50:00	reynir	KellerKatze: what host do you use? I chose to1 for whatever reason
2018-11-30 09:50:14	reynir	I'm wondering which is "closest" to Europe
2018-11-30 09:50:42	KellerKatze	reynir: I'm on to1, also for whatever reason (I'm connecting over Tor, so minimizing latency is a fool's errand)
2018-11-30 09:51:03	reynir	ah heh
2018-11-30 09:53:51	KellerKatze	You could just just run something like `for host in to1 sf1 da1 ny1; ping -Aqc 10 ${host}.hashbang.sh` and measure it?
2018-11-30 09:54:44	reynir	pfft
2018-11-30 09:54:48	reynir	that's way too reasonable
2018-11-30 09:55:19	fwiw	KellerKatze: it seems that you like my nick a lot :)
2018-11-30 09:55:41	reynir	ok, ny1 and to1 are similar
2018-11-30 09:55:47	reynir	not worth changing
2018-11-30 09:55:55	KellerKatze	fwiw: Why?  You said “hi” last night, so I just replied
2018-11-30 09:56:31	KellerKatze	reynir: Not surprising; FWIW (eh), someone was talking about perhaps getting us a server in London
2018-11-30 09:56:37	fwiw	^ see
2018-11-30 09:56:53	KellerKatze	It's capitalised differently, though
2018-11-30 09:57:23	reynir	64 bytes from KellerKatze: icmp_seq=1 ttl=121 time=42300000.0 ms
2018-11-30 09:57:32	KellerKatze	badgirl: Yeah, that's probably an issue with the firejail profile for mutt
2018-11-30 09:57:59	KellerKatze	badgirl: That one is on me, I wrote the dang profile  :/
2018-11-30 09:59:13	KellerKatze	badgirl: As a workaround, you can close mutt and restart it outside of firejail; it's kinda dirty, but it would work.
2018-11-30 09:59:35	reynir	what is firejail
2018-11-30 10:09:58	KellerKatze	reynir: It's an application sandbox; basically, we use it to (try to) prevent all our users getting compromised because of a bug in weechat or mutt (which are the 2 main things we run for you by default)
2018-11-30 10:12:17	KellerKatze	I'd rather not use a setuid sandbox binary, but that will only be possible starting with Buster (which ships with the sysctl kernel.unprivileged_userns_clone set to 1)
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2018-11-30 11:15:48	badgirl1	#!aaaa
2018-11-30 11:15:56	badgirl1	#!
2018-11-30 11:16:09	Andrio	Go Team Ant?
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2018-11-30 11:31:56	badgirl1	/home/badgirl/send read only file system (errorno=30)
2018-11-30 11:32:13	badgirl1	i cant send email
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2018-11-30 12:50:22	bgiannan	anyone else can't push on github ?
2018-11-30 13:09:50	KellerKatze	bgiannan: Seems to work fine for me
2018-11-30 13:11:06	ryan	badgirl: check out the PR for mail on hashbang/dotfiles on GitHub, .muttrc is a bit broken right now
2018-11-30 13:12:09	bgiannan	works now but it was hanging for about 1 hour
2018-11-30 13:14:36	ryan	I see nothing from GitHub status pages
2018-11-30 14:22:15	ryan	so I have a question
2018-11-30 14:22:32	ryan	on both Linux and macOS, I hear a high-pitched hum from my microphone
2018-11-30 14:22:38	ryan	but only when something is listening to it
2018-11-30 14:23:45	Andrio	Feedback?
2018-11-30 14:23:45	reynir	NSA
2018-11-30 14:23:55	reynir	definitely NSA
2018-11-30 14:28:49	ryan	Trying to reproduce now
2018-11-30 14:29:32	ryan	hm, looks like it's definitely my mixer's fault
2018-11-30 14:29:59	ryan	or something connected to it
2018-11-30 14:30:20	ryan	i'll have to see if i can get something to suppress feedback, 
2018-11-30 14:30:22	ryan	one second
2018-11-30 14:30:27	ryan	tornado alarm's going off, but it's not monday
2018-11-30 14:32:01	ryan	no weather reports
2018-11-30 14:34:55	ryan	so the Rust team has decided to try moving all of IRC to Discord
2018-11-30 14:34:57	ryan	https://github.com/rust-lang/beta.rust-lang.org/pull/484
2018-11-30 14:35:06	ryan	"there's no conspiracy but if you try to investigate or ask around we'll ban you"
2018-11-30 14:54:12	reynir	ugh
2018-11-30 14:54:49	reynir	discord is horrible for this
2018-11-30 14:55:53	ryan	yeah
2018-11-30 14:55:55	ryan	the funny thing is
2018-11-30 14:55:58	ryan	on one of their community pages
2018-11-30 14:56:05	ryan	they put "Rust is it's community"
2018-11-30 14:56:12	ryan	except it's apparently _not_.
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2018-11-30 15:01:27	napcae	this is a really strange move
2018-11-30 15:03:47	reynir	Reason uses discord for chat
2018-11-30 15:04:49	reynir	it's annoying to use a bloated web app with horrible nick completion, and you can choose between dark grey on light grey or light grey on dark grey for optimal low contrast unreadability
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2018-11-30 15:22:00	ryan	https://github.com/rust-lang/beta.rust-lang.org/pull/484#issuecomment-443234417
2018-11-30 15:22:10	ryan	yet again they were like "whoops we fucked up revert revert"
2018-11-30 15:24:32	reynir	heh
2018-11-30 15:28:14	ryan	eval: "test"
2018-11-30 15:28:14	--	Notice(eval): Out of order. The Rust community now lives at https://discordapp.com/invite/rust-lang
2018-11-30 15:28:16	ryan	lolol
2018-11-30 15:28:33	reynir	what
2018-11-30 15:28:39	polprog	lol
2018-11-30 15:29:43	ryan	reynir: the maintainer of eval has a mini protest
2018-11-30 15:29:58	reynir	oh lol
2018-11-30 15:30:27	fwiw	oh, didn't realize eval also on here
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2018-11-30 16:20:39	KellerKatze	ryan: Lolwhat?  That's a... pretty creative interpretation of what happened.
2018-11-30 16:21:00	ryan	KellerKatze: if it only happened once, sure.
2018-11-30 16:21:12	ryan	but this has been a thing that's happened at least three times since I started using Rust, which wasn't even that long ago.
2018-11-30 16:21:15	KellerKatze	(Note that I also prefer IRC to Discord, heavily)
2018-11-30 16:22:27	KellerKatze	ryan: By “this”, you mean what?  'cause I don't think it's abnormal to close PRs from people who are trying to pick a fight rather than doing anything constructive.
2018-11-30 16:23:04	ryan	the PR itself was definitely phrased badly, sure, but the fact that they cut out the entirety of the IRC community, on the "community" page, has been attempted repeatedly
2018-11-30 16:23:23	ryan	you'd think at this time even if they managed to forget about a pretty large size of the community that they'd at least remember their previous failures.
2018-11-30 16:24:14	ryan	look at the first comment: The vast majority of Rust teams have chosen to move their official chat spaces to Discord, and in most cases have de-voiced the old IRC channels.
2018-11-30 16:24:20	ryan	which was then "clarified" into: To clarify: this PR was closed and locked because of the bad faith description, not because of the proposed change.
2018-11-30 16:25:21	KellerKatze	ryan: “the fact [...] has been attempted repeatedly” -> Not sure what you mean there, can't parse.
2018-11-30 16:26:47	ryan	right sorry - they have in the past tried to remove IRC from the Rust community and make everyone move to Discord, to the point of claiming that channels still on IRC, were *only* on Discord, despite still having the IRC option.
2018-11-30 16:28:51	KellerKatze	Eh, #rust and such still exist; I don't see why it's a big deal if some teams chose to move themselves to Discord, they can have shitty chat if they want to
2018-11-30 16:29:12	ryan	sure
2018-11-30 16:29:14	ryan	they can
2018-11-30 16:29:42	ryan	but the "community" page should have at the very least a MENTION of the IRC community.
2018-11-30 16:30:40	KellerKatze	“we plan to add a link to the new site shortly” doesn't sound like it's not happening
2018-11-30 16:31:33	ryan	yes because of the community backlash (that I kinda shoved everywhere in #rust and #rust-offtopic)
2018-11-30 16:32:08	KellerKatze	Anyway, I don't particularly get why people got massively pissed about an oversight in the beta version of the rust website
2018-11-30 16:32:17	 *	KellerKatze shrugs.
2018-11-30 16:32:32	ryan	because it's an "oversight" that happens constantly?
2018-11-30 16:32:40	ryan	it's only ever fixed when people raise hell about it.
2018-11-30 16:37:59	KellerKatze	ryan: According to `git log --grep`, it never was in the beta website, so I'm a bit confused what you mean by “constantly”
2018-11-30 16:38:09	ryan	yes because that's a redesign
2018-11-30 16:38:19	ryan	however, in previous redesigns, the community fought to have it put in
2018-11-30 16:40:28	fwiw	totally not conspiracy
2018-11-30 16:42:08	fwiw	ryan: also, I don't know that there was previous iteration of redesign. I think it's just some issue and planning.
2018-11-30 16:42:20	ryan	not the current redesign
2018-11-30 16:42:28	ryan	but previous redesigns and tweaks to the website and other community pages
2018-11-30 16:44:51	fwiw	ryan: any source on that?
2018-11-30 16:45:39	ryan	none that i can easily find and unfortunately that makes me the only unreliable source.
2018-11-30 16:47:26	fwiw	narator: that was a lie
2018-11-30 16:49:08	ryan	a good example would probably be #rust-dev-tools which now points people to Discord but you can still get support there and most people who work with dev tools still stay there
2018-11-30 16:51:00	fwiw	yeah, not all people leaving, it just some team, and some other busy on the other side
2018-11-30 16:52:06	fwiw	ryan: a good emotion to describe this is sadness I guess, not anger, for me personally.
2018-11-30 16:52:41	ryan	my best guess is they're trying to avoid community fragmentation
2018-11-30 16:52:50	ryan	but in doing so are creating some pretty bad PR because of it
2018-11-30 16:56:49	benharri	what would they gain in using discord :/
2018-11-30 16:57:15	benharri	i saw that mastodon and gitea are using discord as their dev chats as well 
2018-11-30 16:57:19	benharri	makes me very Sad
2018-11-30 16:57:27	ryan	discord makes it a lot easier to make channels for one specific thing
2018-11-30 16:57:47	ryan	like for here we have #!, #!social, #!support, and every other thing has it's own #!-channel.
2018-11-30 16:57:59	ryan	same goes for Discord where some communities can have much more concentrated conversations
2018-11-30 16:58:11	ryan	the problem is, Rust already had that large amount of channels! >:I
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2018-11-30 17:01:56	benharri	i suppose people can view chat history on discord
2018-11-30 17:03:03	ryan	there's reason to use Discord.
2018-11-30 17:03:10	ryan	the problem is, Discord is absolute shit from a support standpoint
2018-11-30 17:03:19	ryan	"hey let's take 5 minutes registering to ask a 2 minute question"
2018-11-30 17:09:19	dch	IRC > Discord when you want less triablism
2018-11-30 17:09:38	dch	something about profile pictures changed the group psychology, imo
2018-11-30 17:09:48	dch	s/changed/changes/
2018-11-30 17:12:25	fwiw	benharri: I hear that the admin tools are better there
2018-11-30 17:12:34	ryan	irccloud has support for profile pictures :P
2018-11-30 17:12:43	ryan	using the 'avatar' metadata key
2018-11-30 17:12:52	benharri	i don't want avatars on my irc
2018-11-30 17:12:58	benharri	ehhh they're ok
2018-11-30 17:13:08	benharri	you can delete messages i suppose
2018-11-30 17:13:16	ryan	well you can disable them obviously
2018-11-30 17:13:28	benharri	good thing
2018-11-30 17:13:33	dch	fwiw: there's a lot of customisation with roles and emojis and whatever.
2018-11-30 17:13:35	benharri	i'd rather use thelounge than irccloud
2018-11-30 17:14:13	dch	interestingly all runs on BEAM as Erlang servers
2018-11-30 17:14:26	dch	written in Elixir, but still
2018-11-30 17:14:30	fwiw	fearless concurency
2018-11-30 17:14:35	dch	really cool architecture.
2018-11-30 17:14:58	dch	https://blog.discordapp.com/how-discord-handles-two-and-half-million-concurrent-voice-users-using-webrtc-ce01c3187429
2018-11-30 17:15:52	benharri	ahh yeah i've read a couple of they dev articles
2018-11-30 17:15:57	benharri	cool stuff 
2018-11-30 17:48:03	viaken	ryan: Why don't they bridge the channels? There's a few ways to do it.
2018-11-30 17:48:25	ryan	conspiracy+!
2018-11-30 17:48:37	ryan	no, i'm not that far into the whole conspiracy thing
2018-11-30 17:48:46	ryan	there's a lot more channels on the Discord side than the IRC side
2018-11-30 17:49:31	viaken	dch: IRC can be extremely tribal. Ask echelon. :P
2018-11-30 17:51:13	viaken	I'd be curious to see a study on community dynamics with and without avatars. That'd be inherently difficult, but still...
2018-11-30 17:52:53	viaken	s/inherently/incredibly/ is what I meant to say.
2018-11-30 18:17:49	sapeint	Hey so I I personally prefer Discord to IRC for most things, with a few exceptions (for example I play DnD/Pathfinder through Discord)
2018-11-30 18:18:02	dch	Same
2018-11-30 18:18:08	dch	I use irc for programming stuff.
2018-11-30 18:18:41	ryan	I think over long term conversations might be better suited to Discord.
2018-11-30 18:18:48	ryan	for now
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2018-11-30 18:26:49	sapeint	I do think that's a plus. On the other side an issue I see on discord is people not necessarily caring about username similarities. 
2018-11-30 18:27:05	sapeint	Even though Discord offers an IRC-like theme (which I use) which doesn't show Avatars. 
2018-11-30 18:27:22	sapeint	So people expect others to use the Avatars and other stuff to differntiate them, when that's not always an option. 
2018-11-30 18:27:51	sapeint	(I also have issues with Discord's proprietary nature, in addition to being privately owned with the creator having a history of doing shit). 
2018-11-30 18:31:43	dch	I'll use the webapp but I'm not running proprietary software
2018-11-30 18:50:11	sapeint	There are some alternative clients that are OpenSource IIRC
2018-11-30 18:50:36	sapeint	Also I actually got around to organizing things in Mutt, just learned how to use folders ^-^
2018-11-30 18:51:27	ryan	there's the bitlbee client but that means no voice chat
2018-11-30 18:51:34	ryan	Discord is really heavily against trying to make custom clients
2018-11-30 18:51:44	reynir	discord also allows full unicode in nicks. That's nice because then people can put their real name in there, but it also means you can write nicks that basically no one can type.
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2018-11-30 18:52:25	ryan	yes and i knew a person who made it so no one could ever ping them which was fucking annoying
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2018-11-30 19:04:09	sapeint	@everyone :P
2018-11-30 19:22:45	reynir	ryan: I did that once :P Pissed off the owners which was my goal
2018-11-30 19:23:02	reynir	(because they ditched IRC for discord)
2018-11-30 19:23:15	ryan	sapeint: @everyone is bullshit and i disabled that shit ASAP
2018-11-30 19:23:43	sapeint	@someone
2018-11-30 19:23:48	reynir	@anyone
2018-11-30 19:24:02	benharri	@noone
2018-11-30 19:24:43	reynir	btw you can't have # in your nick so I used ♯ to put the user id / number in my nick
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2018-11-30 19:38:40	hdb2	hi, new user here...I'm trying to add my ssh keys from other machines, I've added them to ~/.ssh/authorized_keys, but I'm getting denied.  I'm wondering if ssh keys are added another way on hashbang?
2018-11-30 19:39:20	ryan	yes, you have to use the `hashbangctl` utility
2018-11-30 19:39:33	hdb2	ah, thank you. 
2018-11-30 19:39:36	ryan	that way they get synchronized across all servers, and can be used even on shell-servers not run by us
2018-11-30 19:40:30	hdb2	yup, and you had the option to import from github - wonderful! I just learned about this service from a tildes.net post, checked out the github repo...this looks really exciting
2018-11-30 19:43:05	reynir	ryan: are the public keys exposed publicly somewhere?
2018-11-30 19:43:22	ryan	reynir: yes, our LDAP is read-only public.
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2018-11-30 22:29:06	rafasc	benharri: did you managed to try and change my homeserver?
2018-11-30 22:29:49	rafasc	This is a bit of a rethorical question, because I am still receiving email over at da1. :P
2018-11-30 22:30:12	ryan	it's that reminder phrased as a statement
2018-11-30 22:31:10	rafasc	more like reminder disguised as innocent question. :)
2018-11-30 22:32:10	benharri	oh shoot no i haven't
2018-11-30 22:32:19	benharri	i can have a look in just a bit
2018-11-30 22:32:48	rafasc	benharri: don't sweat it.. Do it when you find the time. It was just a friendly reminder.
2018-11-30 22:33:03	ryan	yeah that's the one, question
2018-11-30 22:33:05	ryan	forgot the word
2018-11-30 22:33:14	ryan	so i went with statement which i knew was wrong but was hoping no one would point it out
2018-11-30 22:36:32	rafasc	maybe changing homeserver should be something that hashbangctl should be able to do.
2018-11-30 22:36:37	rafasc	Or maybe not.
2018-11-30 22:37:36	ryan	eventually the goal would be that homeservers are irrelevant.
2018-11-30 22:37:42	ryan	currently their only purpose as far as I can tell, is mail
2018-11-30 22:37:57	ryan	eventually we're hoping for some kind of setup that works better than delivery to a Mail folder
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2018-11-30 22:54:18	benharri	ok just got back i can take a look now
2018-11-30 23:18:14	rafasc	Thanks for looking into it, tell me if you need something from me.
2018-11-30 23:26:41	benharri	ok i'm out of my depth on the ldap stuff
2018-11-30 23:27:01	benharri	i'm not super familiar with this
2018-11-30 23:28:32	benharri	ryan: ?
2018-11-30 23:28:47	ryan	no clue, i touch ldap as little as possible
2018-11-30 23:28:53	ryan	we should have an ldif for removing ssh keys
2018-11-30 23:29:13	ryan	try to make it so that it changes the homeserver and mail directory?
2018-11-30 23:29:22	benharri	lol yeah the last time i ssh'd to ldap.#! was to fixup the the ssl cert i think
2018-11-30 23:29:30	benharri	is that in admin-tools?
2018-11-30 23:29:56	ryan	ya
2018-11-30 23:30:25	rafasc	https://gist.github.com/lrvick/acefd410450a801e1a73#file-ldapmodify_examples-sh-L41-L60
2018-11-30 23:30:30	rafasc	would this help?
2018-11-30 23:32:53	benharri	maybe
2018-11-30 23:33:05	benharri	i'm not sure how to grab an existing user
2018-11-30 23:36:24	lrvick	Lol i totally forgot I wrote that
2018-11-30 23:36:32	lrvick	I had to relearn that stuff recently
2018-11-30 23:36:35	lrvick	Go past me
2018-11-30 23:36:57	benharri	so how would i change the homeserver for an existing user
2018-11-30 23:37:22	lrvick	Look at how hashbangctl works
2018-11-30 23:37:32	lrvick	It changes everything but that
2018-11-30 23:37:38	lrvick	Using python ldap
2018-11-30 23:37:44	lrvick	Easy to adapt
2018-11-30 23:38:07	lrvick	Or PR hashbangctl to support that small change
2018-11-30 23:40:56	benharri	ahh ok
2018-11-30 23:41:00	benharri	i'll have a look
2018-11-30 23:42:47	benharri	looks like it would hvae to be in #!/provisor too
2018-11-30 23:45:25	rafasc	but shouldn't it be fairly straight forward to do it with ldapmodify?
2018-11-30 23:45:32	rafasc	like in the gist example?
2018-11-30 23:49:28	benharri	oh wait it's already in provisor
2018-11-30 23:49:32	benharri	should be ez
2018-11-30 23:56:36	rafasc	famous last words
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2018-12-01 00:14:46	--	Notice(github): [hashbangctl] benharri created set-homeserver (+1 new commit): https://git.io/fpo3E
2018-12-01 00:14:46	--	Notice(github): hashbangctl/set-homeserver 8580ab9 Ben Harris: set home server
2018-12-01 00:15:27	--	Notice(github): [hashbangctl] benharri opened pull request #20: set home server from #!ctl (master...set-homeserver) https://git.io/fpo32
2018-12-01 00:15:43	benharri	anyone around able to review that? ^^
2018-12-01 00:18:47	fosslinux	simple, looks good to be
2018-12-01 00:18:51	fosslinux	s/be/me
2018-12-01 00:19:27	ryan	i'm not sure how much of a fan i am of that being a thing given eventually servers will be a lot more limited
2018-12-01 00:19:50	ryan	fosslinux: did you get approval access or is approval just a thing that can happen by anyone
2018-12-01 00:19:57	fosslinux	appproval can happen by anyone
2018-12-01 00:20:08	ryan	so i can see an obvious issue already
2018-12-01 00:20:11	ryan	h is already taken by help
2018-12-01 00:20:14	ryan	in menu_items
2018-12-01 00:20:57	fosslinux	oh whoops my bad
2018-12-01 00:21:13	ryan	wait why the hell can't i review
2018-12-01 00:21:18	ryan	oh nvm i was on the tree
2018-12-01 00:21:20	fosslinux	i thought the h was some other character
2018-12-01 00:22:38	fosslinux	00:19:27             ryan | i'm not sure how much of a fan i am of that being a thing given eventually servers will be a lot more limited
2018-12-01 00:22:43	fosslinux	what do you mean by that?
2018-12-01 00:23:23	ryan	comments added, benharri 
2018-12-01 00:23:32	ryan	fosslinux: servers have a "recommended" limit of 500 users
2018-12-01 00:23:46	ryan	so you shouldn't _really_ be hopping servers too often
2018-12-01 00:23:49	fosslinux	oh
2018-12-01 00:23:51	ryan	to make that limit somewhat realistic
2018-12-01 00:23:51	fosslinux	ok
2018-12-01 00:24:02	 *	fosslinux dosen't hop servers
2018-12-01 00:24:28	ryan	but i can't say that i've not wanted to change my homeserver
2018-12-01 00:24:34	ryan	files are on ny1 but mail is on da1
2018-12-01 00:25:03	fosslinux	ryan:i can't see any comments
2018-12-01 00:25:13	ryan	reload?
2018-12-01 00:25:14	fosslinux	 oh nvm
2018-12-01 00:25:16	fosslinux	i can see now
2018-12-01 00:25:30	fosslinux	it took a few minutes to come throught
2018-12-01 00:26:30	benharri	oh ok good call
2018-12-01 00:26:49	fosslinux	benharri: why use raw_input anyway
2018-12-01 00:27:18	benharri	idk i was following the format of the others
2018-12-01 00:27:34	fosslinux	because python3 does not have raw_input
2018-12-01 00:27:41	ryan	right but python2's input is dangerous
2018-12-01 00:27:42	fosslinux	and python2 is eol in 2020
2018-12-01 00:27:50	fosslinux	so use python3
2018-12-01 00:30:00	benharri	buster defaults to py3
2018-12-01 00:30:08	ryan	finally :D
2018-12-01 00:30:48	fosslinux	remember when everyone was dissing arch for defaulting to py3 :D
2018-12-01 00:31:03	ryan	which was stupid, yes.
2018-12-01 00:31:05	fosslinux	tooo bleeding edge etc etc
2018-12-01 00:31:05	benharri	cause it broke stuff
2018-12-01 00:31:07	ryan	fix your god damned hashbangs.
2018-12-01 00:31:19	benharri	i mean stuff is going to break in buster with this
2018-12-01 00:31:24	ryan	good.
2018-12-01 00:31:26	benharri	but it's incentive to fix it
2018-12-01 00:31:27	ryan	if it doesn't happen now...
2018-12-01 00:31:33	benharri	it won't ever
2018-12-01 00:31:33	fosslinux	which made sense back then (not to default to py3)
2018-12-01 00:33:11	rafasc	benharri: can you run it for me, or do I need to wait for that to get merged?
2018-12-01 00:34:00	--	Notice(github): [hashbangctl] benharri pushed 1 new commit to set-homeserver: https://git.io/fposR
2018-12-01 00:34:00	--	Notice(github): hashbangctl/set-homeserver f1a15b6 Ben Harris: h is already in use...
2018-12-01 00:35:44	--	Notice(github): [hashbangctl] benharri pushed 1 new commit to set-homeserver: https://git.io/fposa
2018-12-01 00:35:44	--	Notice(github): hashbangctl/set-homeserver 2ac6e9f Ben Harris: host not in hosts
2018-12-01 00:36:48	benharri	will be easiest to wait for this to be live
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2018-12-01 02:37:47	--	Notice(github): [hashbangctl] benharri pushed 1 new commit to set-homeserver: https://git.io/fpocw
2018-12-01 02:37:47	--	Notice(github): hashbangctl/set-homeserver 02219d9 Ben Harris: get current shell servers from provisor
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2018-12-01 07:55:21	ryan	so an update on my mixer
2018-12-01 07:55:33	ryan	i think it's the adapter from the mic to the mixer that's having issues
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2018-12-01 15:47:35	viaken	well crap
2018-12-01 15:47:40	viaken	That didn't do what I wanted.
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2018-12-01 16:29:20	viaken	Hangouts, Hangouts Meet, Hangouts Chat, Duo, Allo, Voice, and Messages. Am I missing any? WTH are they doing over there?
2018-12-01 16:54:40	reynir	Hangovers
2018-12-01 16:54:55	polprog	hangups?
2018-12-01 16:54:57	polprog	hiccups?
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2018-12-01 17:04:55	trinary	viaken - Getting promoted by bringing new products to the market, or so I'm told
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2018-12-01 17:14:34	viaken	hm
2018-12-01 17:16:30	trinary	If you consider putting "Brought service X to the market" vs "Maintained service X for a while, nothing exciting happened because I did my job" on your resume, you can understand that part of their motivation
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2018-12-01 19:23:47	lrvick	viaken: They are pumping out shitware to see what sticks. they are so desperate/threatened by the other 200 shitware messengers
2018-12-01 19:32:52	ryan	lrvick: it's so weird but they seem to kill off the things that do
2018-12-01 19:33:08	ryan	Literally the only two things I continue to use Google for, is Inbox and YouTube
2018-12-01 19:33:24	ryan	And yet Inbox is going away and YouTube is getting increasingly awful
2018-12-01 19:37:22	viaken	I expect Voice to be on the chopping block in the not so distant future.
2018-12-01 19:37:44	viaken	Especially with https://messages.android.com/
2018-12-01 19:37:45	--	Notice([]): v​iaken: Shortened < https://is.gd/20EPbF >
2018-12-01 19:39:41	lrvick	And this is why I don't live my life dependent on other peoples proprietary shitware.
2018-12-01 19:41:45	viaken	What alternative is there to Voice?
2018-12-01 19:42:51	viaken	I want a number I can route to various phones as needed, send texts/make calls from my workstation, and the voicemail transcription is really nice. Bonus points for the ability to filter spam.
2018-12-01 19:42:59	lrvick	Dunno. I have no real use for SMS or voice calls.
2018-12-01 19:43:05	lrvick	but if you do, get a voip app?
2018-12-01 19:43:19	viaken	How's a voip app help me?
2018-12-01 19:43:44	lrvick	can use a phone number from any device you are logged into with the app?
2018-12-01 19:44:13	viaken	That checks one box out of 3/4.
2018-12-01 19:44:30	viaken	Maybe 2 if they have a desktop app, though it's probably some electron monstrosity.
2018-12-01 19:45:01	lrvick	there are doens of voip apps for every platform
2018-12-01 19:45:04	lrvick	dozens*
2018-12-01 19:46:06	lrvick	http://nerdvittles.com/?p=27274
2018-12-01 19:46:10	--	Notice([]): l​rvick: Title "R.I.P. GVSIP: A Final Farewell to Google Voice – Nerd Vittles" Shortened < https://is.gd/vYErAc >
2018-12-01 19:46:34	viaken	It'd be great if I could convince my whole family to use an open messenger, but I can't even convince them that there's means of communication beyond Facebook. They don't even call me unless they've not heard from me in months.
2018-12-01 19:47:14	lrvick	oh well. their problem not yours.
2018-12-01 19:47:41	lrvick	if you want an open source google voice alternative I suggest setting up an Asterisk server
2018-12-01 19:47:45	lrvick	or renting one
2018-12-01 19:47:54	lrvick	then you can have sms/voice with a data only sim
2018-12-01 19:48:03	lrvick	or to an app of your choosing
2018-12-01 19:48:09	lrvick	or webapps, whatever
2018-12-01 19:51:45	lrvick	https://mndrix.blogspot.com/2018/06/sms-over-irc.html?m=1
2018-12-01 19:51:46	--	Notice([]): l​rvick: Title "mndrix: SMS over IRC" Shortened < https://is.gd/TQZwo7 >
2018-12-01 19:51:53	lrvick	That is what I plan to do
2018-12-01 19:52:05	lrvick	For stupid services that require sms for 2fa
2018-12-01 19:52:34	lrvick	https://mndrix.blogspot.com/2017/02/selfhosted-google-voice.html?m=1
2018-12-01 19:52:35	--	Notice([]): l​rvick: Title "mndrix: Selfhosted Google Voice" Shortened < https://is.gd/TuHBc9 >
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2018-12-01 19:53:46	lrvick	Porting your GV number to twilio then using their more open API is probably easiest
2018-12-01 19:55:58	lrvick	https://gist.github.com/mndrix/6966f79e0834fbfb1926f9c6afb6e22e
2018-12-01 19:55:58	--	Notice([]): l​rvick: Title "SMS over IRC · GitHub" Shortened < https://is.gd/ab4LEh >
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2018-12-01 20:18:08	viaken	Porting to Twilio just trades one service for another.
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2018-12-01 20:21:41	ryan	Yes, and?
2018-12-01 20:22:03	ryan	Either way you'll still have a service, but Twilio is less likely to die off than Google
2018-12-01 20:22:52	ryan	Sure the end goal is to self host but short term, Google just isn't an option
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2018-12-01 20:33:59	fosslinux	ryan: yesterday we were talking about homeservers. should i only be using one server out of the four?
2018-12-01 20:34:08	fosslinux	or is it ok to be using more than one?
2018-12-01 20:34:22	ryan	Yeah you can use whichever you want
2018-12-01 20:34:31	ryan	And however many*
2018-12-01 20:36:02	lrvick	viaken: You are porting your number to a service that gives you a REST api and allows you to use any open source standard PBX/VOIP apps you want
2018-12-01 20:36:19	lrvick	this is like the smtp/imap of telephony
2018-12-01 20:36:39	lrvick	you can of course self host if you have a few hundred dollars for asterisk gear
2018-12-01 20:36:55	fosslinux	ok thx
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2018-12-01 22:37:29	marlyn	Hmm, why are irrsi and mutt run in firejail? Is that because these are programs that interface with other things over the network, and could serve as a hole, or...
2018-12-01 22:56:54	viaken	marlyn: Pretty much, yep.
2018-12-01 23:48:33	lrvick	this is my life right now: http://termbin.com/ewhr
2018-12-01 23:48:34	--	Notice([]): l​rvick: Shortened < https://is.gd/ssysI3 >
2018-12-01 23:48:47	lrvick	"android builds are deterministic" they said.
2018-12-02 02:40:35	dzho	did they really?
2018-12-02 02:41:12	ryan	> │ -ro.bootimage.build.date=Sat Dec 1 20:08:43 UTC 2018
2018-12-02 02:41:18	ryan	how to spot whether or not something is deterministic
2018-12-02 02:42:01	dzho	lack of date stamps seems like it'd be one yeah
2018-12-02 02:43:35	dzho	but what do I know
2018-12-02 02:43:57	ryan	dzho: if you have a timestamp on something, it's possible to reproduce the exact build at a later date
2018-12-02 02:49:13	dzho	perhaps
2018-12-02 02:49:45	ryan	you could spoof your system time but then you have the issues that come with that.
2018-12-02 02:49:50	dzho	my understanding was that unique strings, like datestamps, within the build artifacts is the opposite of reproducible
2018-12-02 02:50:08	ryan	right
2018-12-02 02:50:09	dzho	but if you spoof the time then what's the point of having it in the first place?
2018-12-02 02:50:14	ryan	exactly
2018-12-02 02:50:21	ryan	oh
2018-12-02 02:50:23	ryan	not****** possible.
2018-12-02 02:50:29	dzho	oh heh
2018-12-02 02:50:31	ryan	sorry i am not doing that good tonight
2018-12-02 02:50:36	dzho	happens
2018-12-02 02:50:55	dzho	thought I was missing something but you know how it goes I try not to yell at people on the internet so much as I used to
2018-12-02 02:51:17	ryan	i'd avoid #rust-offtopic
2018-12-02 02:51:23	 *	dzho grins
2018-12-02 02:51:24	ryan	which has been super pedantic to literally everything all night long :P
2018-12-02 02:53:20	dzho	just waiting for this stupid slow zip file to d/l
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2018-12-02 03:47:33	virepri	q
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2018-12-02 03:51:25	fatpointer	Finally I have a decent mobile irc experience
2018-12-02 03:51:36	viaken	How'd you build yours?
2018-12-02 03:51:43	fosslinux	^
2018-12-02 03:59:53	benharri	weechat-android probably
2018-12-02 04:13:01	fatpointer	Yes good it from the play store 
2018-12-02 04:13:09	fatpointer	Previously I had an iPhone
2018-12-02 04:23:14	benharri	play store version is out of date
2018-12-02 04:23:18	benharri	try the f-droid one
2018-12-02 04:32:26	fatpointer	ah thanks.. new to android.. so will check it out.
2018-12-02 04:33:45	benharri	/join #!os
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2018-12-02 05:30:43	fatpointer	You guys building an OS?
2018-12-02 05:31:00	ryan	the end goal is reproducible AOSP builds
2018-12-02 06:15:40	fatpointer	AOSP? What's that
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2018-12-02 06:58:27	ryan	fatpointer: android open source project
2018-12-02 06:59:55	fatpointer	Oh cool
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2018-12-02 16:17:42	nithael	How to display this variable in python? var1="Is {test1} greater than {test2}? "
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2018-12-02 16:25:11	trinary	print(var1), but you probably wanted to ask how to interpolate test1 and test2 into the string
2018-12-02 16:25:54	trinary	Which would be var1 = f'Is {test1} greater than {test2}?' print(var1)
2018-12-02 16:26:12	trinary	Or just directly print(f'Is {test1} greater than {test2}?')
2018-12-02 16:26:42	trinary	(3.6+)
2018-12-02 16:26:54	nithael	I'm learning Python 3.6
2018-12-02 16:27:16	nithael	But I was wondering how to print a string variable with variables inside of it
2018-12-02 16:28:16	trinary	Isn't that what I explained?
2018-12-02 16:29:23	nithael	Yeah it's fine :)
2018-12-02 16:29:30	nithael	But why is it single quote only ?
2018-12-02 16:29:55	nithael	Ohh it works too with double quotes
2018-12-02 16:30:50	nithael	Before asking my question I was trying var1 = f."Is {test1} greater than {test2}"
2018-12-02 16:31:30	nithael	the '.' after 'f' was my mistake
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2018-12-02 20:52:13	dgrove	KellerKatze, lrvick, ryan: when you have a moment this should be ready https://github.com/hashbang/admin-tools/pull/146
2018-12-02 20:52:14	--	Notice([]): d​grove: Title "Add board members email alias by drGrove · Pull Request #146 · hashbang/admin-tools · GitHub" Shortened < https://is.gd/f7UYcK >
2018-12-02 20:52:50	ryan	right i think i reviewed that already
2018-12-02 20:53:02	ryan	a single super nitpicky issue
2018-12-02 20:53:14	ryan	in aliases.j2, "board:" has no space after it
2018-12-02 20:53:24	ryan	besides that :+1:
2018-12-02 20:53:30	ryan	can merge/deploy whenever
2018-12-02 20:56:03	dgrove	Resolved
2018-12-02 20:56:13	--	Notice(github): [admin-tools] drGrove pushed 1 new commit to upgrade-to-unrealircd-4_2_0: https://git.io/fpKaJ
2018-12-02 20:56:13	--	Notice(github): admin-tools/upgrade-to-unrealircd-4_2_0 249a291 Danny Grove: Update configs
2018-12-02 20:58:35	dgrove	nvm, now it's fixed
2018-12-02 20:58:42	--	Notice(github): [admin-tools] drGrove pushed 1 new commit to board-members-email: https://git.io/fpKam
2018-12-02 20:58:42	--	Notice(github): admin-tools/board-members-email 50bb247 Danny Grove: Fix missing space after 'board:'
2018-12-02 21:12:26	nithael	Is the name of a file always the first variable of argv ?
2018-12-02 21:12:34	nithael	(In python)
2018-12-02 21:21:50	fatpointer	I ought to check up on what you guys are up to on GitHub 
2018-12-02 21:22:47	fatpointer	Last I remember someone was pushing for kubernetes. How far did that get?
2018-12-02 21:25:50	ryan	nithael: i think there's cases where it might not be
2018-12-02 21:26:06	ryan	fatpointer: it's still in progress mostly because those who have the knowledge to do it, don't have the time, and vice versa
2018-12-02 21:27:16	fatpointer	Ah well if I could get in sync on the road map I would love to help
2018-12-02 21:29:45	nithael	argv[1:]
2018-12-02 21:30:38	nithael	You're right, but python still assume that the first var is the filename ?
2018-12-02 21:34:06	ryan	is there a reason you're not using __file__ ?
2018-12-02 21:38:26	nithael	No ? I'm reading a boot of python, i'm just learning the basics Ahah
2018-12-02 21:38:33	nithael	book*
2018-12-02 21:38:50	nithael	Idk what "__file__" is yet
2018-12-02 21:39:18	ryan	it's usually the name of the file that the code exists in
2018-12-02 22:10:02	KellerKatze	ryan: argv[0] isn't the same as __file__ though, especially if you used a CLI entry point
2018-12-02 22:10:11	ryan	Didn't say it was
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2018-12-03 00:20:53	dgrove	o/ KellerKatze 
2018-12-03 00:25:43	fwiw	o/ hash banger
2018-12-03 00:27:32	viaken	o/ beings
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2018-12-03 01:10:42	fatpointer	o/ 
2018-12-03 01:15:36	ryan	o/
2018-12-03 03:06:08	fatpointer	heh 
2018-12-03 03:06:57	ryan	YOU RUINED IT.
2018-12-03 03:11:34	slipyx	now we RUIN YOU
2018-12-03 03:58:31	dgrove	Hi fatpointer 
2018-12-03 03:58:34	dgrove	How goes?
2018-12-03 03:58:53	dgrove	ryan: You should look at PR ;) and actually approve it if you're happy
2018-12-03 03:59:31	ryan	huh i completely missed the ping
2018-12-03 03:59:33	ryan	one sec
2018-12-03 03:59:47	fatpointer	Taking it easy, at home watching narcos
2018-12-03 03:59:57	fatpointer	what about you?
2018-12-03 04:00:09	ryan	:+1: from me
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2018-12-03 06:55:11	--	Nicks #!: [[] a4ro aaaa aada aada1 aada2 adra aewens ahriman aipdimi aipdimi1 aisockets aloha alx alx1 amar andrew[andrboot] Andrio Anna apetresc applethegolden aris atx avalyn avalyn1 awal b0bb badgirl bang1215 barnold bbbybbsn benharri benley bercik bfoxy bgiannan bibek bigband biglysmalls billy549 blopp blurmuir bort bronikowski cadams cascode cestevens cleanshirt clody coltondrg commloss cosarara crazylove835 cunnings cxl d8bug Dan-NS27 daurnimator dch demon derpgusta1 DeviaVir devopsdeluxe dgrove diodelass director7 djm djpohly dovsienko drot dzho echelon edgar eggy EHG elliemae ensan3 EpicKitty epicmorphism epimorphism erin esbullin eval fatpointer finalstaticfox flamwenco1 fmirkes foamy fosslinux fr0ddy frankblues fwiw G-man gdrz genpaku gkoutsog gmalato gsattle guiscaranse h4nk hallamsmith handyc happycoffeebean HashbangIRCBridge hdb2 heatingdevice hfuller holla3 hornest hotfire ihalip illegalprime imanulyaqin indigodaddy integral ivstefn ixanili jake1 jcaldow jcardenas jee jesopo jlee jpt jrmu jrwr jtru k8o k8o1 karakarga kauhat KellerKatze kellertest key knight ko koren krael krisfremen l1nkd l2dy lagom Larsenv larsenv1 liumkattan liya1 lrvick lw Maki mark1 marlyn marshall Mateon1 matthias MaxLeiter mayli mayli1 mayli[da1] mcdonalds mdom meep megaj mihi_tmux mikea minerobber[team] mjkit mjkit1 mjlassila ml mlyons Mokita mrirenne mufasa myricae napcae nckx neersighted nepi nhunt nithael noah noir nonlinear notpushkin notslip nuclearpesto nukla nu|L odie ohattsh opcode panicbit pihat pihat1 polprog potatoe praetor project3 pwagner pyrolagus quetzalcoatl qwertzy r080 r2d2 r4 rafasc1 rakon raven rdap reynir rff32k rgu rkenwel rmo rofopaje roundtree rvolosatovs ryan safeith saidinwot sam sapeint Saphire scat scholarch scholarchdist scifi scockram sebboh sebbu sebweb seedbox shwoop sjw slipxy slipyx smokeypanda sparksjoy squareguy sstewart steveg stilldavid stinethebean sweetjp t3chnolog1c tetsuharu TheCryptek thesseyren tinyrick tmpope tohei Trangar transalp trinary tripoli trunkie tseng tso tsoporan tunas tylerlevine ubergeek unmd1 unnamed user1 useruser vantablack vc viaken virepri vmo vmo2 von1 wasylews waterbury willa wilsonfisk worg wxs4274 XandriX- xesu yarn ZachBacon zeekay]
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2018-12-03 06:55:47	fosslinux	PETER
2018-12-03 06:55:52	fosslinux	lmao
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2018-12-03 10:19:19	snurryboy	would an admin be able to install znc-dev so i can compile mods like playback?
2018-12-03 10:19:54	ryan	you can PR packages on the shell-server repo, look for the packages.yml file I think
2018-12-03 10:20:39	snurryboy	oh? i just add the package to the end of the file?
2018-12-03 10:20:49	snurryboy	or you mean on git
2018-12-03 10:21:29	ryan	there's a file with a long list of packages
2018-12-03 10:21:45	ryan	and yeah on github: https://github.com/hashbang/shell-server
2018-12-03 10:21:46	--	Notice([]): r​yan: Title "GitHub - hashbang/shell-server: #! shell server base images, ready to boot and allow user logins." Shortened < https://is.gd/czBBwV >
2018-12-03 10:25:58	snurryboy	ive not done a pull request before. am i meant to create a fork and edit in the package then im able to make a pull request with that fork?
2018-12-03 10:26:56	ryan	yeah
2018-12-03 10:28:39	--	Notice(github): [shell-server] snurryboy opened pull request #90: main.yml (master...patch-1) https://git.io/fp6J8
2018-12-03 10:30:03	ryan	:tada:
2018-12-03 10:42:31	reynir	You can also clone the repository, make changes, and then send a diff with git format-patch
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2018-12-03 17:24:38	viaken	reynir: Does GitHub support that with their tooling?
2018-12-03 18:19:03	jrwr	who likes space? I do! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq8kS6UoOrQ spacex is live for another launch
2018-12-03 18:19:04	--	Notice([]): j​rwr: Title "Spaceflight SSO-A: SmallSat Express - YouTube" Shortened < https://is.gd/XtPjcw >
2018-12-03 18:41:09	viaken	eval: test
2018-12-03 18:41:14	--	Notice(eval): error[E0425]: cannot find value `test` in this scope
2018-12-03 18:41:14	--	Notice(eval): ~~~ Full output: https://play.rust-lang.org/?gist=0157003619ea7407902efe2816b00d39&version=stable&mode=debug
2018-12-03 18:41:22	viaken	hm
2018-12-03 18:51:44	fatpointer	eval: ()
2018-12-03 18:51:47	--	Notice(eval): ()
2018-12-03 18:52:04	fatpointer	eval: let r = (); r
2018-12-03 18:52:07	--	Notice(eval): ()
2018-12-03 18:53:12	fatpointer	eval: let r = (); println!({}, r);
2018-12-03 18:53:16	--	Notice(eval): error: format argument must be a string literal
2018-12-03 18:53:16	--	Notice(eval): ~~~ Full output: https://play.rust-lang.org/?gist=82c6595e35b409bdd0264b321d0a596f&version=stable&mode=debug
2018-12-03 18:53:24	fatpointer	eval: let r = (); println!("{}", r);
2018-12-03 18:53:28	--	Notice(eval): error[E0277]: `()` doesn't implement `std::fmt::Display`
2018-12-03 18:53:28	--	Notice(eval): ~~~ Full output: https://play.rust-lang.org/?gist=b63e615f353426426e00858700eabb5f&version=stable&mode=debug
2018-12-03 18:54:14	fatpointer	eval: let r = (); println!("{:?}", r);
2018-12-03 18:54:17	--	Notice(eval): ()
2018-12-03 18:54:17	--	Notice(eval): ()
2018-12-03 18:54:23	fatpointer	;o 
2018-12-03 19:14:54	polprog	eval: use std::process::Command; Command::new("uname").arg("-a").output().expect("im a good programmer and i blocked this");
2018-12-03 19:14:58	--	Notice(eval): ()
2018-12-03 19:15:01	polprog	...
2018-12-03 19:15:12	polprog	i dont know what to think about it
2018-12-03 19:15:41	polprog	rust syntax is just horrible
2018-12-03 19:16:11	polprog	eval: use std::process::Command; let out = Command::new("uname").arg("-a").output().expect("im a good programmer and i blocked this"); println!("{}", out);
2018-12-03 19:16:15	--	Notice(eval): error[E0277]: `std::process::Output` doesn't implement `std::fmt::Display`
2018-12-03 19:16:15	--	Notice(eval): ~~~ Full output: https://play.rust-lang.org/?gist=92e0db52360d1ac02dd40a36cf95f907&version=stable&mode=debug
2018-12-03 19:16:18	fatpointer	I think it's great
2018-12-03 19:17:12	polprog	eval: use std::process::Command; let out = Command::new("uname").arg("-a").output().expect("im a good programmer and i blocked this"); println!("{:?}", out);
2018-12-03 19:17:17	--	Notice(eval): Output { status: ExitStatus(ExitStatus(0)), stdout: "Linux c0fc48c8b5b4 4.4.0-1072-aws #82-Ubuntu SMP Fri Nov 2 15:00:21 UTC 2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux\n", stderr: "" }
2018-12-03 19:17:17	--	Notice(eval): ()
2018-12-03 19:17:25	polprog	bingo
2018-12-03 19:18:18	polprog	eval: use std::process::Command; let out = Command::new("ls").arg("-hal").output().expect("im a good programmer and i blocked this as well"); println!("{:?}", out);
2018-12-03 19:18:21	--	Notice(eval): <<<message too long for irc>>>
2018-12-03 19:18:21	--	Notice(eval): ()
2018-12-03 19:18:25	polprog	lol
2018-12-03 19:18:34	polprog	i wont be breaking this thing anymore
2018-12-03 19:18:44	polprog	i dont even program in rust
2018-12-03 19:19:15	polprog	eval: use std::process::Command; let out = Command::new("uptime").output().expect("im a good programmer and i blocked this as well"); println!("{:?}", out);
2018-12-03 19:19:19	--	Notice(eval): Output { status: ExitStatus(ExitStatus(0)), stdout: " 19:19:19 up 7 days,  5:54,  0 users,  load average: 1.14, 1.41, 1.44\n", stderr: "" }
2018-12-03 19:19:19	--	Notice(eval): ()
2018-12-03 19:19:23	polprog	ok, this is the last one, i promise
2018-12-03 19:19:30	polprog	lol, barely a week ;v
2018-12-03 19:20:09	fatpointer	eval: use std::process::Command; let cmd = Command::new("hostname").output()?; println!("{}", cmd);
2018-12-03 19:20:13	--	Notice(eval): error[E0277]: the `?` operator can only be used in a function that returns `Result` or `Option` (or another type that implements `std::ops::Try`)
2018-12-03 19:20:13	--	Notice(eval): ~~~ Full output: https://play.rust-lang.org/?gist=dfe50a7c840c4c309e2256f01953587d&version=stable&mode=debug
2018-12-03 19:20:21	fatpointer	eval: use std::process::Command; let cmd = Command::new("hostname").output(); println!("{}", cmd);
2018-12-03 19:20:26	--	Notice(eval): error[E0277]: `std::result::Result<std::process::Output, std::io::Error>` doesn't implement `std::fmt::Display`
2018-12-03 19:20:26	--	Notice(eval): ~~~ Full output: https://play.rust-lang.org/?gist=51a89dc917288e9724c17751f4629720&version=stable&mode=debug
2018-12-03 19:20:35	fatpointer	eval: use std::process::Command; let cmd = Command::new("hostname").output(); println!("{:?}", cmd);
2018-12-03 19:20:38	--	Notice(eval): Ok(Output { status: ExitStatus(ExitStatus(0)), stdout: "b2ea39c65502\n", stderr: "" })
2018-12-03 19:20:38	--	Notice(eval): ()
2018-12-03 19:20:39	polprog	try that curly brace colon question atrocity
2018-12-03 19:20:40	polprog	lol
2018-12-03 19:21:03	polprog	i wonder why it uses channel notices instead of just messaging
2018-12-03 19:21:08	fatpointer	looks lie it's in a container
2018-12-03 19:21:12	polprog	rip people who have notify on notices set up
2018-12-03 19:21:26	polprog	i hope :D
2018-12-03 19:21:34	polprog	wanna try lscpu?
2018-12-03 19:21:40	fatpointer	eval: use std::process::Command; let cmd = Command::new("lscpu").output(); println!("{:?}", cmd);
2018-12-03 19:21:43	--	Notice(eval): <<<message too long for irc>>>
2018-12-03 19:21:43	--	Notice(eval): ()
2018-12-03 19:21:47	fatpointer	;o
2018-12-03 19:21:49	polprog	hmm
2018-12-03 19:21:59	fatpointer	eval: use std::process::Command; let cmd = Command::new("cal").output(); println!("{:?}", cmd);
2018-12-03 19:22:02	--	Notice(eval): Err(Os { code: 2, kind: NotFound, message: "No such file or directory" })
2018-12-03 19:22:02	--	Notice(eval): ()
2018-12-03 19:22:16	fatpointer	eval: use std::process::Command; let cmd = Command::new("ps").output(); println!("{:?}", cmd);
2018-12-03 19:22:19	--	Notice(eval): Ok(Output { status: ExitStatus(ExitStatus(0)), stdout: "  PID TTY          TIME CMD\n    1 ?        00:00:00 entrypoint.sh\n    7 ?        00:00:00 timeout\n    8 ?        00:00:00 playground\n   20 ?        00:00:00 ps\n", stderr: "" })
2018-12-03 19:22:19	--	Notice(eval): ()
2018-12-03 19:22:39	polprog	eval: use std::process::Command; let out = Command::new("lscpu | grep model").output().expect(":3333"); println!("{:?}", out);
2018-12-03 19:22:44	--	Notice(eval): thread 'main' panicked at ':3333: Os { code: 2, kind: NotFound, message: "No such file or directory" }', libcore/result.rs:1009:5
2018-12-03 19:22:44	--	Notice(eval): ~~~ Full output: https://play.rust-lang.org/?gist=724dea6c7210de4a58fd216e85f7d7b7&version=stable&mode=debug
2018-12-03 19:22:56	polprog	eval: use std::process::Command; let out = Command::new("lscpu | grep model").output().expect("lol"); println!("{:?}", out);
2018-12-03 19:23:01	--	Notice(eval): thread 'main' panicked at 'lol: Os { code: 2, kind: NotFound, message: "No such file or directory" }', libcore/result.rs:1009:5
2018-12-03 19:23:01	--	Notice(eval): ~~~ Full output: https://play.rust-lang.org/?gist=eb376c42701b912ebf80953d92849bb0&version=stable&mode=debug
2018-12-03 19:23:07	polprog	meh
2018-12-03 19:23:42	fatpointer	you no hax0r  meng
2018-12-03 19:25:22	polprog	eval: use std::process::Command; let out = Command::new("grep").arg("model").arg("/proc/cpuinfo").output().expect("lol"); println!("{:?}", out);
2018-12-03 19:25:27	--	Notice(eval): Output { status: ExitStatus(ExitStatus(0)), stdout: "model\t\t: 79\nmodel name\t: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2686 v4 @ 2.30GHz\nmodel\t\t: 79\nmodel name\t: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2686 v4 @ 2.30GHz\n", stderr: "" }
2018-12-03 19:25:27	--	Notice(eval): ()
2018-12-03 19:26:21	polprog	pretty high end
2018-12-03 19:27:27	polprog	but they gave it only two cores? o_o
2018-12-03 19:29:46	polprog	pretty cool
2018-12-03 19:30:56	polprog	hmm  no, it has two physical cpus is suppose
2018-12-03 19:31:01	polprog	i suppose*
2018-12-03 19:31:15	polprog	cpuinfo on my laptop just lists one block of text with 4 cores
2018-12-03 19:31:59	fatpointer	eval: use std::process::Command; let cmd = Command::new("ps").output(); println!("{:#}", cmd);
2018-12-03 19:32:03	--	Notice(eval): error[E0277]: `std::result::Result<std::process::Output, std::io::Error>` doesn't implement `std::fmt::Display`
2018-12-03 19:32:03	--	Notice(eval): ~~~ Full output: https://play.rust-lang.org/?gist=6d4437733a4f2d57e226d79947d2043c&version=stable&mode=debug
2018-12-03 19:32:54	fatpointer	eval: use std::process::Command; let cmd = Command::new("ps").output(); println!("{:#?}", cmd);
2018-12-03 19:33:00	--	Notice(eval): Ok(
2018-12-03 19:33:00	--	Notice(eval):     Output {
2018-12-03 19:33:00	--	Notice(eval):         status: ExitStatus(
2018-12-03 19:33:00	--	Notice(eval): ~~~ Full output: https://play.rust-lang.org/?gist=bc187bf9ec69cda3155739d6110924ca&version=stable&mode=debug
2018-12-03 19:33:05	polprog	i wonder if we passed bash as the base cmd and -c as the actual command, we would be able to run longer, piped stuff
2018-12-03 19:34:43	fatpointer	eval: use std::process::Command; let cmd = Command::new("grep").arg("model").arg("/proc/cpuinfo").output(); println!("{:#?}", cmd);
2018-12-03 19:34:47	--	Notice(eval): Ok(
2018-12-03 19:34:47	--	Notice(eval):     Output {
2018-12-03 19:34:47	--	Notice(eval):         status: ExitStatus(
2018-12-03 19:34:47	--	Notice(eval): ~~~ Full output: https://play.rust-lang.org/?gist=66b64b258cdaccbcdfa10b48ab8795d2&version=stable&mode=debug
2018-12-03 19:36:16	fatpointer	I think that's the play.rust-lang.org host not eval 
2018-12-03 19:36:33	fatpointer	panicbit: can you make eval join #bots on sithmail please <3?
2018-12-03 19:43:41	panicbit	sithmail?
2018-12-03 19:43:46	panicbit	^ fatpointer 
2018-12-03 19:43:56	panicbit	hm hang on
2018-12-03 19:43:56	fatpointer	yer
2018-12-03 19:44:04	panicbit	did you give me the server eariler?
2018-12-03 19:44:06	fatpointer	forgot you put it there months ago 
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2018-12-03 19:44:37	panicbit	done
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2018-12-03 19:44:52	fatpointer	ty
2018-12-03 19:44:57	panicbit	:3
2018-12-03 19:45:06	panicbit	now to your payment
2018-12-03 19:45:15	panicbit	:P
2018-12-03 19:45:26	fatpointer	hehe
2018-12-03 19:45:34	fatpointer	what's up with you these days?
2018-12-03 19:47:37	viaken	polprog: It sends notices because the creator read the spec: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2812#section-3.3.2
2018-12-03 19:47:44	--	Notice([]): v​iaken: Title "RFC 2812 - Internet Relay Chat: Client Protocol" Shortened < https://is.gd/NmL0Ef >
2018-12-03 19:48:01	polprog	tldr, why notices?
2018-12-03 19:48:08	polprog	wait
2018-12-03 19:48:11	polprog	its a sect link
2018-12-03 19:48:16	polprog	lemme read it
2018-12-03 19:48:23	viaken	"This is typically used by services, and automatons (clients with either an AI or other interactive program controlling their actions)."
2018-12-03 19:48:37	polprog	i see
2018-12-03 20:09:39	KellerKatze	polprog: If that's trinary's eval bot, it run each query in a fresh, lightweight VM
2018-12-03 20:10:45	KellerKatze	Oh, no, that's a Rust playground thing
2018-12-03 20:10:47	KellerKatze	I see
2018-12-03 20:12:59	polprog	neat
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2018-12-03 20:42:44	minerobber[team]	"The NOTICE command is used similarly to PRIVMSG. The difference between NOTICE and PRIVMSG is that automatic replies MUST NEVER be sent in response to a NOTICE message. This rule applies to serverstoo - they MUST NOT send any error reply back to the client on receipt of a notice. The object of this rule is to avoid loops between clients automatica
2018-12-03 20:42:44	minerobber[team]	lly sending something in response to something it received."
2018-12-03 20:48:05	polprog	yeah, sensble choice
2018-12-03 20:48:14	polprog	auto reply storm on irc :V
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2018-12-03 21:32:14	viaken	I've seen it happen.
2018-12-03 21:33:11	marlyn	Yeah, I've seen it happen before with, for example, a pair of markov bots who had developed a fondness for one another's handles
2018-12-03 22:01:07	polprog	lol
2018-12-03 22:03:40	ryan	13:15 <polprog> rust syntax is just horrible
2018-12-03 22:03:42	ryan	i like it :I
2018-12-03 22:04:07	polprog	its like... someone took all the syntactic sugars from all the languages and made it a syntax
2018-12-03 22:04:23	ryan	i think you're looking at FusionScript then
2018-12-03 22:04:36	polprog	some :: from cpp, some crazy string formatting from perl
2018-12-03 22:04:56	polprog	word case from java
2018-12-03 22:05:35	ryan	right i forgot that namespacing was something that only C++ has ever had
2018-12-03 22:05:44	polprog	although i liked setters that returned the object in java so you could do object.setX(...).setY(...).setZ(...);
2018-12-03 22:06:01	polprog	thats the nice part
2018-12-03 22:06:14	ryan	but also "crazy string formatting" ? I found it to be pretty reasonable...
2018-12-03 22:06:45	polprog	it looks pretty crazy. i suppose its like regex, pretty cool if you learn it
2018-12-03 22:07:12	polprog	but i know enough languages for now. rust is probably the next one id learn if i wanted to
2018-12-03 22:07:34	ryan	Rust's string formatting is nothing like regex though.
2018-12-03 22:07:46	ryan	If anything it's more like C than regex.
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2018-12-03 22:08:32	polprog	i guess
2018-12-03 22:17:18	polprog	im not saying its a bad language at all
2018-12-03 22:17:27	polprog	its just quirky for me
2018-12-03 22:18:31	polprog	less quirky than lisp which due to its total difference from every other one is ultimately simpler to learn because you arent following patterns you know from c or java, or anything really
2018-12-03 22:19:35	ryan	i guess i can agree on that; it's too "close" to most other languages that you're tempted to pull in things from those
2018-12-03 22:20:33	polprog	yeah
2018-12-03 22:20:54	polprog	im sure its a nice language
2018-12-03 22:21:03	polprog	im tempted to try it on stm32
2018-12-03 22:21:21	polprog	and maybe mess around with rust + asm mixing
2018-12-03 22:21:25	polprog	that would be cool
2018-12-03 22:22:14	polprog	oh my god
2018-12-03 22:22:28	polprog	i thought "i wonder if i can use perl and assembly"
2018-12-03 22:22:30	polprog	https://metacpan.org/pod/distribution/Inline-ASM/ASM.pod
2018-12-03 22:22:31	--	Notice([]): p​olprog: Title "Inline::ASM - Write Perl Subroutines in assembler. - metacpan.org" Shortened < https://is.gd/LhMXCX >
2018-12-03 22:22:32	polprog	hahahahaha
2018-12-03 22:22:35	 *	ryan bonk bonk polprog
2018-12-03 22:22:37	ryan	no, bad >:I
2018-12-03 22:22:54	polprog	this is absolutely amazing
2018-12-03 22:22:57	polprog	hahaha
2018-12-03 22:23:24	 *	polprog pushes ryan off the stack into the void*
2018-12-03 22:23:52	polprog	"you can mix different assembler syntaxes in the same file!" 
2018-12-03 22:23:56	polprog	im crying
2018-12-03 22:25:32	polprog	why, whyyyy
2018-12-03 22:25:50	polprog	is this some psychopatic joke
2018-12-03 22:26:18	marlyn	war crimes
2018-12-03 22:26:59	daurnimator	polprog: I like zig
2018-12-03 22:29:03	polprog	haha, looks good
2018-12-03 22:30:28	daurnimator	At the moment its the only viable C replacement out there
2018-12-03 22:31:37	polprog	hmm. doesnt look too bad
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2018-12-04 01:54:17	yifan	good day everyone :)
2018-12-04 01:54:27	ryan	Greetings.
2018-12-04 01:54:48	yifan	hows your day?
2018-12-04 01:55:10	ryan	alright, can't complain too much
2018-12-04 01:55:21	ryan	i had a burger so that's like a solid plus there
2018-12-04 01:55:45	yifan	haha. stop there. your makin' me hungry ^^
2018-12-04 01:56:07	yifan	my stomach is empty right now haha
2018-12-04 02:29:04	fatpointer	ok I'm going to go grab some Chipotle
2018-12-04 02:33:06	lrvick	I want some
2018-12-04 02:33:08	lrvick	so hard
2018-12-04 02:33:18	lrvick	but stinethebean hates it even harder
2018-12-04 02:33:39	stinethebean	I just had it so much that it became not great. 
2018-12-04 02:34:10	stinethebean	lrvick: but if you want Chipotle tonight...that's fine. 
2018-12-04 02:54:22	lrvick	mmkay
2018-12-04 03:10:49	viaken	Factor (http://factorcode.org) was fun to play with today.
2018-12-04 03:10:49	--	Notice([]): v​iaken: Title "Factor programming language" 
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2018-12-04 04:03:25	netprivi	hi everyone
2018-12-04 04:03:35	ryan	Greetings.
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2018-12-04 05:22:30	Andrio	Hello
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2018-12-04 07:45:43	polprog	good morning
2018-12-04 08:07:39	reynir	viaken: sure
2018-12-04 08:36:53	epicmorphism	hi
2018-12-04 08:39:36	reynir	hi
2018-12-04 10:12:55	viaken	reynir?
2018-12-04 10:14:12	reynir	hi viaken 
2018-12-04 10:14:16	viaken	hi
2018-12-04 10:14:29	viaken	What was this about? 09:07:39           reynir | viaken: sure
2018-12-04 10:14:34	lrvick	netprivi: howdy
2018-12-04 10:15:18	viaken	netprivi: Hello!
2018-12-04 10:16:21	reynir	17:24:38*         viaken │ reynir: Does GitHub support that with their tooling?
2018-12-04 10:16:39	viaken	Ah!
2018-12-04 10:24:45	viaken	What I meant was, "Do they have a spot to put those patches, or would it be up to the maintainer to know what to do with it?" Which, it seems like the latter.
2018-12-04 10:28:06	reynir	the latter
2018-12-04 10:28:25	viaken	That's fine. More people should know how to use git, rather than GH.
2018-12-04 10:28:51	viaken	And an automated way to send git patches via email would just become a spam endpoint/method of obuse.
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2018-12-04 15:11:36	sebboh	Hi all.  Question.
2018-12-04 15:14:04	fwiw	Hi some.   Answer.
2018-12-04 15:52:42	polprog	ack
2018-12-04 16:19:53	viaken	sebboh?
2018-12-04 16:49:07	reynir	Hi two persons.  Snarky comment.
2018-12-04 16:59:38	polprog	insult
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2018-12-04 18:21:50	sebboh	Sorry, my buddy factory reset his router so I lost my connection to my home box which is still at his place from a lan party. :)
2018-12-04 18:22:26	polprog	party hard
2018-12-04 18:22:57	sebboh	then I had a meeting but now I'm back!  My question is.. Nobody has my gpg public key because "nobody" includes me.  But I do manage to manage my ssh public keys...  The various tildes and services like github and gitlab and sr.ht etc all have ssh pub keys from various boxen...  Is it possible for someone to encrypt a message for me using only one of my ssh pub keys?
2018-12-04 18:23:37	polprog	it should be as far as i understand
2018-12-04 18:23:41	polprog	thats what pubkeys are for
2018-12-04 18:24:32	polprog	and then you decrypt it with your private key
2018-12-04 18:24:33	ryan	i'm not sure how the SSH key is derived from the GPG key
2018-12-04 18:24:55	polprog	im not sure if ssh keys work the same way as normal gpg
2018-12-04 18:25:08	ryan	right
2018-12-04 18:25:25	polprog	but as far as i understand key based auth is just encrypting a message with clients pub key, the client decrypts it and if its the same message its let in
2018-12-04 18:25:38	polprog	decrypts it, sends it back*
2018-12-04 18:25:52	trinary	Apparently? https://bjornjohansen.no/encrypt-file-using-ssh-key
2018-12-04 18:25:53	--	Notice([]): t​rinary: Title "Encrypt and decrypt a file using SSH keys" Shortened < https://is.gd/ll9CAU >
2018-12-04 18:26:22	sebboh	trinary: you searched the web?! cheating.  Personal interaction or it didn't happen. ;)
2018-12-04 18:26:43	ryan	polprog: i thought it worked based on challenge/response signature verification
2018-12-04 18:26:48	polprog	your google fu is just not string enough sebboh 
2018-12-04 18:27:04	polprog	ryan: i have no idea, thats what i suppose, i read it somewhere
2018-12-04 18:27:27	polprog	the challenge would be to decrypt and send back the servers message and the server compares it to what it sent
2018-12-04 18:27:30	polprog	i think
2018-12-04 18:27:43	polprog	ive no idea about encryption :D
2018-12-04 18:27:50	sebboh	right, no relation between ssh pub/priv pair and gpg.  Right, based on what I know of the ssh keypair and handshake, they are conceptually similiar to gpg.
2018-12-04 18:29:14	sebboh	polprog: my question is specifically (n.b. I have not read trinary's link yet): can someone craft a message only I can read when all they know about me is my ssh pub key.  They are permitted to tell me what to type into my terminal to do the decrypt, but we aren't permitted to have any ssh servers in common.
2018-12-04 18:29:15	sebboh	bbiab
2018-12-04 18:29:35	polprog	i think yes
2018-12-04 18:30:00	polprog	because, i think, thats what the ssh server does when it authorizes you
2018-12-04 18:30:59	polprog	https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/understanding-the-ssh-encryption-and-connection-process#authenticating-the-user's-access-to-the-server more less yes
2018-12-04 18:31:00	--	Notice([]): p​olprog: Title "Understanding the SSH Encryption and Connection Process | DigitalOcean" Shortened < https://is.gd/JdhfLI >
2018-12-04 18:31:27	polprog	with a difference that the client sends an md5 hash of the servers message [the number] and some other thing thats explained in the former paragraphs
2018-12-04 18:34:28	ryan	oh
2018-12-04 18:34:36	ryan	so it uses DH to negotiate a session encryption key
2018-12-04 18:34:49	ryan	then sends over an encrypted challenge, which you have to then decrypt and send back
2018-12-04 18:34:51	ryan	neat
2018-12-04 18:36:56	polprog	https://pics.me.me/who-would-win-carol-a-world-class-hacker-some-kind-of-30474384.png
2018-12-04 18:36:57	--	Notice([]): p​olprog: Shortened < https://is.gd/IQbDVx >
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2018-12-04 18:43:05	sebboh	sfw image?
2018-12-04 18:43:19	polprog	yeah
2018-12-04 18:44:13	sebboh	heh
2018-12-04 18:44:26	trinary	Come on, sebboh, reply already? c.c
2018-12-04 18:46:47	trinary	Actually, don't, I couldn't read it anyway
2018-12-04 18:48:57	ryan	best way to wake yourself up in the morning
2018-12-04 18:49:03	ryan	restart server, realize you're out of disk space
2018-12-04 18:49:10	ryan	have to reboot a 10 year old machine :I
2018-12-04 18:50:18	polprog	best way to wake up
2018-12-04 18:50:40	sebboh	trinary: don't reply?  Did you just go idle?  I think in principle the method described in bjorn's post looks good.  Some of the details and worries brought up in the comments seem to warrant further research.
2018-12-04 18:50:43	polprog	0 7 * * * beep -r 10
2018-12-04 18:50:51	polprog	15 7 * * * rm -rf /*
2018-12-04 18:51:32	trinary	sebboh - I was referring to your PMs. But I couldn't read a reply, because I can't find my ssh privkey
2018-12-04 18:51:40	sebboh	oh!
2018-12-04 18:51:53	trinary	You might be able to read my message though
2018-12-04 18:51:58	sebboh	I will try
2018-12-04 18:51:59	polprog	do you guys send encrypted pms to eachother
2018-12-04 18:52:04	trinary	Well, I tried
2018-12-04 18:52:16	trinary	sebboh managed to ignore the base64 flood entirely
2018-12-04 18:53:11	polprog	"Here we are encrypting and decrypting a file. What if we need to encrypt and decrypt a password saved in that file instead. Can we do it using the same commands?" -- i love this sort of commands
2018-12-04 18:53:15	polprog	thoughtless
2018-12-04 18:53:41	polprog	no, there is a special encryption algorhitm just for password, if you use the normal one for password your finger will rot away
2018-12-04 18:53:50	polprog	fingers*
2018-12-04 18:57:01	reynir	sebboh: you shouldn't use a key used for signing (ssh authentication) for encryption
2018-12-04 18:58:11	sebboh	reynir: I have seen keys that are tagged with specific 'purposes'.  But I don't know why.  Like... is it about key length?
2018-12-04 19:03:35	reynir	sebboh: uh, good question
2018-12-04 19:20:06	sebboh	it worked!  Using the first step of the bjorn blog post, a user encrypted some text and sent it to me and I decrypted it using my private ssh key.  neato
2018-12-04 19:25:53	polprog	nice!
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2018-12-05 05:23:48	sebboh	I got this problem with yapet.  (password manager)  I created a new entry then walked away and reattached from another tmux and now the screen doesn't render correctly and I haven't yet saved. I can hit ESC ESC and it prompt me to discard changes.  normally I'd tab over to the OK button/field and hit enter and it will return me to the main screen where I can hit s to save.  But..
2018-12-05 05:24:32	ryan	interesting, some weird pinentry thing based on controlling tty?
2018-12-05 05:24:51	sebboh	dunno what pinentry is.
2018-12-05 05:25:12	sebboh	totally a bug in this app re: screen resizing afaict
2018-12-05 05:25:33	ryan	pinentry is a password entry kinda thing
2018-12-05 05:25:57	ryan	so like for my system it pops up a GUI program where i put in my pin, or password
2018-12-05 05:26:07	ryan	but then there's ones that directly take control of your terminal
2018-12-05 05:26:20	sebboh	I tried bg'ing the process and hitting the parent shell with a SIGWINCH, lemme try hitting that process itself with the same signal
2018-12-05 05:26:33	sebboh	oh, no gui for yapet, it's curses
2018-12-05 05:26:57	sebboh	https://yapet.guengel.ch
2018-12-05 05:26:59	--	Notice([]): s​ebboh: Title "YAPET - Yet Another Password Encryption Tool" Shortened < https://is.gd/PgvgGQ >
2018-12-05 05:28:59	sebboh	WINCH signal did not change it.  ... I will detach stuff and leave it to see if anybody posts a reply but otherwise, screw it, I'll just reset that pass later.
2018-12-05 05:31:07	sebboh	gotta detach everything (other than that I guess) and log back in to get my groups updated.  Added myself to the dialout group to minicom to the bus pirate for grabbing serial output from the pinebook :D  ... and graphically sex unix in general in the face for how groups are always inherited from the parent process instead of picking up changes on the fly. :(
2018-12-05 05:40:50	fosslinux	!!tilde
2018-12-05 05:41:03	fosslinux	ignore me
2018-12-05 05:42:02	ryan	/ignore fosslinux 
2018-12-05 05:42:10	fosslinux	no :P
2018-12-05 05:43:04	ryan	did someone say something or was that the ambient wind
2018-12-05 05:43:37	fosslinux	it was the tornato that you're oblivious to
2018-12-05 05:44:15	ryan	i live in kansas that's pretty likely
2018-12-05 05:44:26	fosslinux	lol
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2018-12-05 06:01:34	sebboh	who are you talking to ryan? are you drunk?
2018-12-05 06:01:48	ryan	nah just off in the head
2018-12-05 06:01:50	ryan	nothing new there
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2018-12-05 07:15:04	itsundef	y
2018-12-05 07:15:25	ryan	Greetings.
2018-12-05 07:16:34	fatpointer	hai 
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2018-12-05 07:26:47	Andrio	echo "wh"; yes
2018-12-05 07:26:50	Andrio	I mean, hello
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2018-12-05 07:34:44	fatpointer	🙄
2018-12-05 07:42:14	ryan	i'm wondering if it's possible to take this gif: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/w0rp/ale/master/img/example.gif
2018-12-05 07:42:15	--	Notice([]): r​yan: Shortened < https://is.gd/1duZev >
2018-12-05 07:42:28	ryan	and re-encode it so that it optimizes some stuff out
2018-12-05 07:43:11	ryan	like i imagine that based on the size of the GIF there's frames where stuff just doesn't change
2018-12-05 07:45:16	fatpointer	Why does it matter
2018-12-05 07:45:37	ryan	well i looked into it and did a couple of things and turns out that no, it's already pretty optimized
2018-12-05 07:45:48	ryan	fatpointer: basically trying to make it so that half the size of a repo isn't just in that one gif
2018-12-05 07:46:33	fatpointer	hm
2018-12-05 07:46:44	fatpointer	lol k are you bored?
2018-12-05 07:46:53	fatpointer	Which timezone are you in?
2018-12-05 07:48:27	ryan	no, just trying to optimize a bit
2018-12-05 07:48:29	ryan	US/Central
2018-12-05 07:48:54	 *	polprog whishpers: ...h.264....
2018-12-05 07:49:18	ryan	polprog: my thoughts on this are that h.264 would have enough iframes in it that it would basically just be the GIF all over again
2018-12-05 07:49:37	polprog	heh, let me look at this gif
2018-12-05 07:49:40	ryan	i realize there's a point where h.264 is practical but i don't think this is it given 1. compression is awful for text and 2. it's probably iframe heavy
2018-12-05 07:50:21	polprog	id just reencode it as mp4 and see if it helps
2018-12-05 07:50:36	polprog	how big is it now?
2018-12-05 07:50:41	ryan	4 MB
2018-12-05 07:50:45	ryan	although after further consideration
2018-12-05 07:50:46	polprog	hmm
2018-12-05 07:50:48	ryan	it might not be worth it
2018-12-05 07:51:13	polprog	you could totally half the framerate imo
2018-12-05 08:26:17	fatpointer	I don't know enough about this stuff to make a meaningful contribution 
2018-12-05 08:27:15	fatpointer	there's h.265 as well... 
2018-12-05 08:27:36	fatpointer	the most I know about the two is that most of the movies I torrent come in these formats heh
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2018-12-05 08:47:30	fatpointer	https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=MEwbfnCpKA4
2018-12-05 08:47:31	--	Notice([]): f​atpointer: Title "\"The Russian Sleep Experiment\" | IReadCreepyPastas - YouTube" Shortened < https://is.gd/NdvNCU >
2018-12-05 08:56:28	fatpointer	my new favourite bed time story
2018-12-05 09:01:20	yifan	exit
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2018-12-05 17:35:40	polprog	:q
2018-12-05 17:37:21	jesopo	im not vim
2018-12-05 17:37:23	jesopo	>:|
2018-12-05 17:42:10	ryan	ZZ
2018-12-05 17:47:57	sapeint	?
2018-12-05 17:48:56	ryan	sapeint: ZZ is a way to exit Vim
2018-12-05 17:49:04	ryan	one less keystroke than :q<CR>
2018-12-05 17:52:33	jesopo	wtf
2018-12-05 17:53:30	ryan	what
2018-12-05 17:53:42	 *	ryan ZZ all over jesopo
2018-12-05 17:53:44	ryan	vimvimvimvimvim
2018-12-05 17:54:34	jesopo	zzz
2018-12-05 17:54:46	sapeint	?
2018-12-05 17:54:49	ryan	vimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvim
2018-12-05 17:54:51	sapeint	?
2018-12-05 17:54:57	ryan	really easy to spam on this keyboard apparently
2018-12-05 17:55:01	sapeint	?
2018-12-05 17:55:25	ryan	sapeint: your ? key is stuck
2018-12-05 17:55:29	sapeint	?
2018-12-05 17:55:34	--	sapeint is now known as Ed
2018-12-05 17:55:36	Ed	?
2018-12-05 17:55:48	jesopo	Ed: https://github.com/jesopo/bitbot/pulls
2018-12-05 17:55:49	--	Notice([]): j​esopo: Title "Pull Requests · jesopo/bitbot · GitHub" Shortened < https://is.gd/FhQcuZ >
2018-12-05 17:55:50	Ed	?
2018-12-05 17:55:57	ryan	q
2018-12-05 17:56:06	--	Ed is now known as sapeint
2018-12-05 17:56:08	sapeint	:P
2018-12-05 17:58:45	sapeint	Also ryan, nah my ? key wasn't stuck, I was just being ed :P
2018-12-05 17:59:24	ryan	yeah i realized
2018-12-05 17:59:31	ryan	hence the `q` once i figured it out
2018-12-05 17:59:55	ryan	!ed
2018-12-05 18:00:03	ryan	oh no rustbot
2018-12-05 18:00:10	ryan	makes sense this isn't moznet
2018-12-05 18:01:56	reynir	h
2018-12-05 18:02:35	reynir	oh, sapeint stopped being ed
2018-12-05 18:05:58	sapeint	yeah
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2018-12-05 22:48:03	ryan	so I need to order 80 Raspberry Pi 3B cases
2018-12-05 22:48:43	ryan	anyone know of a good supplier? preferably looking for something cheap but it's more urgent than we need cost-effectiveness.
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2018-12-05 23:01:51	meizikyn	What is it called when a server presents a notice such as "We have not given information to any government agency, please pay attention to the removal of this notice", such as the one presented on the #! webpage?
2018-12-05 23:02:06	meizikyn	I know there is a special name for these kinds of notices, but cannot remember what it is
2018-12-05 23:02:34	ryan	ours is a very badly done warrant canary
2018-12-05 23:02:46	ryan	the proper way to do it would be for us to publish something saying that
2018-12-05 23:02:55	ryan	and then you guys pay attention to the fact that maybe we *didn't* send it
2018-12-05 23:03:59	meizikyn	aah,, canary, I knew it was something bird related, thanks!
2018-12-05 23:05:31	meizikyn	what do you mean "maybe we didn't send it"
2018-12-05 23:05:53	ryan	let's use Reddit as an example
2018-12-05 23:06:14	ryan	every year i think it publishes something it calls a "transparency report"
2018-12-05 23:06:57	ryan	https://np.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/4cqyia/for_your_reading_pleasure_our_2015_transparency
2018-12-05 23:06:59	--	Notice([]): r​yan: Title "For your reading pleasure, our 2015 Transparency Report : announcements" Shortened < https://is.gd/UEcPMT >
2018-12-05 23:07:27	ryan	https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-cyber-reddit-idUSKCN0WX2YF?utm_source=reddit.com
2018-12-05 23:07:28	--	Notice([]): r​yan: Title "Reddit deletes surveillance 'warrant canary' in transparency report | Reuters" Shortened < https://is.gd/YidFWV >
2018-12-05 23:07:39	daurnimator	meizikyn: the principle is that most governments can only make laws that *prevent* you from doing something. it's impossible to *make* you do something
2018-12-05 23:07:59	ryan	except now in some countries you'll get nagged at for having a warrant canary
2018-12-05 23:08:18	daurnimator	meizikyn: so they tell us that we're not allowed to publish "we have received a notice from the government"
2018-12-05 23:08:46	ryan	https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/03/australian-government-minister-dodge-new-data-retention-law-like-this/
2018-12-05 23:08:46	--	Notice([]): r​yan: Title "Australian government minister: Dodge new data retention law like this | Ars Technica" Shortened < https://is.gd/kt0QBb >
2018-12-05 23:08:52	daurnimator	but they can't force us to publish "we *didn't* get anything from the government this month"
2018-12-05 23:09:01	meizikyn	Can those nations take legal action against services that have obvious warrant canarys in any other way?
2018-12-05 23:09:21	ryan	well as of right now
2018-12-05 23:09:27	ryan	publishing warrant canaries in Australia is illegal
2018-12-05 23:09:47	ryan	not only is stating the presence of a warrant illegal, stating the *lack of presence* is illegal now as well
2018-12-05 23:10:19	daurnimator	ryan: it's not explicitly illegal. but it's more a "you're not allowed to let anyone know; if you paint yourself into a corner than its *your* problem"
2018-12-05 23:10:53	meizikyn	Australlia definitely takes privacy by leaps and bounds huh..
2018-12-05 23:11:00	ryan	right so basically a lot of companies kinda stopped doing warrant canaries because now the legal guidelines on it are very shaky
2018-12-05 23:11:10	ryan	but i guess that's the state of most things these days
2018-12-05 23:11:28	ryan	i found a USB wifi adapter supplier \o/
2018-12-05 23:11:34	ryan	now, cases
2018-12-05 23:11:39	ryan	wonder if the old supplier is in business still
2018-12-05 23:12:06	meizikyn	maybe something more under the table, perhaps something more implied such as the revokation of a published gpg key
2018-12-05 23:12:30	meizikyn	or the lack of updating it, rather
2018-12-05 23:13:27	ryan	oh, proxy companies, great. :I
2018-12-05 23:14:10	ryan	meizikyn: right so you can still publish a warrant canary but as long as you don't specifically mention warrants you *should* be fine
2018-12-05 23:14:20	ryan	i think i read that someone uses a weather analogy
2018-12-05 23:14:41	ryan	and you just never, ever keep logs when talking about it or that could be potentially used in some court
2018-12-05 23:30:22	meizikyn	is there a public directory on this server that users can share files on, for example git repos for other users to copy or read locally?
2018-12-05 23:32:28	ryan	users can run their own programs that bind to network ports
2018-12-05 23:32:42	ryan	so by default you have a file at ~/.config/systemd/user/SimpleHTTPServer.service
2018-12-05 23:32:43	--	Notice([]): r​yan: Shortened < https://is.gd/O3VnQI >
2018-12-05 23:33:03	ryan	you can change the port in there to whatever, then use `systemctl --user enable --now SimpleHTTPServer`
2018-12-05 23:34:27	meizikyn	ahh, I was trying with 'start' instead of 'enable', thank you kindly
2018-12-05 23:34:42	ryan	you can do `start`, but `enable` means it'll start on-boot as well
2018-12-05 23:34:49	ryan	`--now` means it acts like `start`
2018-12-05 23:35:00	ryan	it'll serve stuff in $HOME/Public
2018-12-05 23:47:05	meizikyn	had to change the python binary to python3.5, as the default uses 3.4 and is no longer available, I might need to notify an admin about that one :p
2018-12-05 23:47:46	ryan	really? it points to 2.7 for me.
2018-12-05 23:47:57	ryan	ls -l $(which python) => python2.7
2018-12-05 23:48:10	ryan	and python3 points to 3.5
2018-12-05 23:49:07	ryan	I'm heading out for a bit, need to run some errands \o
2018-12-05 23:52:02	meizikyn	good luck then, I'm off to look for a rules file somewhere
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2018-12-06 00:16:56	nithael	I have a question concerning python
2018-12-06 00:21:00	nithael	Example
2018-12-06 00:21:20	nithael	target = open(filename, 'w')
2018-12-06 00:21:42	nithael	target.truncate()
2018-12-06 00:21:45	nithael	target.write()
2018-12-06 00:22:03	nithael	I don't "understand" the "." in between
2018-12-06 00:23:33	daurnimator	nithael: what do  you mean
2018-12-06 00:24:20	daurnimator	nithael: it is looking up the attribute 'truncate' in `target` and method calling it.
2018-12-06 00:31:24	nithael	target is a variable, truncate is a function I know this
2018-12-06 00:31:39	nithael	But it's the way they interact
2018-12-06 00:31:48	nithael	just a simple dot 
2018-12-06 00:31:50	nithael	?
2018-12-06 00:36:38	meizikyn	target isn't so much a variable as it is an object, the target object has attributes that are other objects
2018-12-06 00:37:01	meizikyn	truncate is called in "relation" to the target object
2018-12-06 00:37:54	meizikyn	rather than calling the object to be acted upon or modified by the the function, truncate acts as a sort of "instance-method" the way that a function might operate when called in the context of a class instance
2018-12-06 00:38:13	meizikyn	calling the object as an arguement*
2018-12-06 00:39:17	meizikyn	so instead of say, >>> truncate(target, *args), you have target.truncate(*args), where truncate operates in the context of target, and the other attributes available in the target object
2018-12-06 00:44:13	meizikyn	for more information on how this works, python refers to these kinds of functions as "methods", since that act upon their containing object
2018-12-06 00:58:28	nithael	ok so These are called objects, Thank you for your time meizikyn :)
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2018-12-06 02:00:56	ryan	nithael: once you learn classes, it should become simpler
2018-12-06 02:19:22	viaken	ryan: Get every 3d printing service in the contiguous states to send you cases? :P
2018-12-06 02:19:37	ryan	viaken: tempting at this point
2018-12-06 02:19:50	ryan	looks like the previous manufacturer used thin steel sheets and just punched it
2018-12-06 02:19:53	ryan	so easily mass producible
2018-12-06 02:20:00	ryan	but i can't find the manufacturer!!! >:I
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2018-12-06 03:37:23	meizikyn	Are their any storage quotas for users, and if not, what is a reasonable limit that should be respected?
2018-12-06 03:38:56	ryan	we usually bug people when they reach a gigabyte but if you need some space and clear it out before we notice you should be fine
2018-12-06 03:40:01	meizikyn	gotcha
2018-12-06 03:40:37	meizikyn	hell thats more than any well advertised shell service offers
2018-12-06 04:20:33	viaken	meizikyn: The idea of a shared space for users to collab on is interesting.
2018-12-06 04:23:08	viaken	I'm not sure how resistant it would be to griefing, but it's something to think about.
2018-12-06 04:23:14	viaken	For now, I need sleep.
2018-12-06 04:23:17	meizikyn	griefing?
2018-12-06 04:23:28	viaken	meizikyn: Someone just wiping out all the files or some such.
2018-12-06 04:23:53	ryan	yeah security here is tough
2018-12-06 04:23:59	meizikyn	oh, maybe sticky bits on paths, or snapshots
2018-12-06 04:24:01	viaken	The sticky bit doesn't prevent `echo "" > important.file` and preventing writing on each others' would inhibit the collab.
2018-12-06 04:24:20	ryan	it might not look it but we're basically under constant attack for people just waiting for stuff to go wrong
2018-12-06 04:24:39	ryan	one time, i was upgrading the servers from Jessie to Stretch
2018-12-06 04:25:07	meizikyn	the history in the man page makes this out like a large-scale server always under attack, but I had to dig the deepest trenches of surface web cruft to discover this place
2018-12-06 04:25:17	ryan	where i basically had like a <1 minute window after a machine booted, to connect and re-enable some permission policy
2018-12-06 04:25:30	meizikyn	why he constant attacks
2018-12-06 04:25:35	ryan	because people are awful
2018-12-06 04:25:55	ryan	alternatively: people want to become admins
2018-12-06 04:25:57	ryan	we have a policy here
2018-12-06 04:26:04	ryan	if you get root on our servers, you get admin status
2018-12-06 04:26:26	meizikyn	as in a public challenge?
2018-12-06 04:26:43	ryan	yes, we say it from time to time to see if people are up to it
2018-12-06 04:26:47	ryan	only one person's ever managed it
2018-12-06 04:27:18	meizikyn	that seems a bit contrived, I'd have to argue that its a questionable security policy :p
2018-12-06 04:28:03	meizikyn	why offer admin status to individuals willing to compromise your server?
2018-12-06 04:28:03	ryan	we have faith that people won't get past it
2018-12-06 04:28:16	ryan	because it shows expertise and talents that we could use
2018-12-06 04:28:28	ryan	the more admins we get, and the more that know about exploits, the more secure our servers become over time
2018-12-06 04:29:18	meizikyn	see, this is the kind of server with the best educational resources one could ask for
2018-12-06 04:29:59	meizikyn	too bad there isn't a history document detailing what exploits were discovered before patching, and what led to their discovery
2018-12-06 04:30:31	ryan	i forget who it was the first time, but like i said it's only happened twice (that we know of)
2018-12-06 04:30:49	ryan	could probably add it to the man page sometime
2018-12-06 04:30:56	ryan	lrvick: who was the admin who got root?
2018-12-06 05:31:31	fosslinux	hey what someone got root????
2018-12-06 05:31:55	ryan	fosslinux: before my time, even, very long ago
2018-12-06 05:32:17	fosslinux	oh lol i thought it was like recently :P
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2018-12-06 07:08:03	lrvick	deleurix
2018-12-06 07:09:28	ryan	right the person who was on once in my entire time here and Never Again
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2018-12-06 08:34:37	lrvick	#!os now feels rock solid on my pixel 3
2018-12-06 08:34:48	lrvick	I think I'll be able to transition to it as my daily driver.
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2018-12-06 11:37:37	 *	viaken just got Pie on his Moto G4, so he's got that going for him.
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2018-12-06 16:40:55	meizikyn	are fuse filesystems enabled for users?
2018-12-06 16:41:31	ryan	think so, maybe not
2018-12-06 16:41:37	KellerKatze	meizikyn: Should be, why?
2018-12-06 16:42:22	meizikyn	trying to build sshfs with meson+ninja in ~, but build process reports fuse isn't available
2018-12-06 16:42:48	meizikyn	might be an issue with sshfs build env, but figured I'd check here to be sure
2018-12-06 16:46:49	KellerKatze	meizikyn: It probably means the headers for libfuse; you can submit a pull request to make us install those (or sshfs directly :P)
2018-12-06 16:48:45	meizikyn	I'm quite git-illiterate, pull request as in make changes to a local copy of the #! git repo and request my changes be merged?
2018-12-06 16:53:23	ryan	https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/06/world/australia/encryption-bill-nauru.html
2018-12-06 16:53:24	--	Notice([]): r​yan: Title "Australian Government Passes Contentious Encryption Law - The New York Times" Shortened < https://is.gd/aBEkCm >
2018-12-06 16:53:25	ryan	Australia
2018-12-06 16:53:27	ryan	why
2018-12-06 17:01:42	fwiw	the
2018-12-06 17:21:34	meizikyn	f
2018-12-06 17:26:44	fwiw	u
2018-12-06 17:27:10	ryan	n
2018-12-06 17:28:10	benharri	k
2018-12-06 17:31:57	fwiw	y
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2018-12-06 17:47:08	meizikyn	m
2018-12-06 17:50:23	minerobber[team]	o
2018-12-06 17:53:06	rafasc	o
2018-12-06 17:53:15	benharri	d
2018-12-06 17:55:29	meizikyn	y
2018-12-06 18:27:07	reynir	b
2018-12-06 18:39:38	KellerKatze	meizikyn: Yes, basically; I can walk you through the process if you would like
2018-12-06 18:41:07	viaken	I wrote a naive implementation for https://adventofcode.com/2018/day/6 that gets exactly the wrong answer apparently?
2018-12-06 18:41:07	--	Notice([]): v​iaken: Title "Day 6 - Advent of Code 2018" Shortened < https://is.gd/uzKX8P >
2018-12-06 18:41:38	viaken	Oh, I think I know the problem.
2018-12-06 18:47:47	reynir	viaken: it seems pretty easy in general to write a program that gives the wrong answer
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2018-12-06 19:16:05	daurnimator	ryan: yeah wtf...
2018-12-06 19:16:27	ryan	i saw a few more articles on it
2018-12-06 19:16:27	daurnimator	fun answer: "Hey anyone who's worried about having to push compromised code to a user should just ensure that you're using the GPL so you also have to offer them the backdoored source code on request"
2018-12-06 19:16:36	ryan	i think Apple has some people in Australia
2018-12-06 19:16:41	ryan	who are now very likely to be out of a job
2018-12-06 19:17:08	ryan	yeah that's what i think is going to be fun about it
2018-12-06 19:17:15	ryan	a lot of FOSS apps are going to be *incredibly* audited now
2018-12-06 19:18:21	daurnimator	Yeah there is a "good" side of it, which is that it encourages making system where trust *isn't* required. e.g. E2E encryption and reproducible builds
2018-12-06 19:19:06	fosslinux	ryan: yeah i've been following that
2018-12-06 19:19:19	fosslinux	its the dummest law ever passed in australia
2018-12-06 19:19:25	fosslinux	i live in australia
2018-12-06 19:19:32	ryan	don't say that they'll take it as a challenge
2018-12-06 19:21:38	fosslinux	kik
2018-12-06 19:21:45	fosslinux	lol
2018-12-06 19:21:53	fosslinux	freedom of speech
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2018-12-06 19:36:47	fosslinux	19:17:15             ryan | a lot of FOSS apps are going to be *incredibly* audited now
2018-12-06 19:36:51	fosslinux	what do you mean by that
2018-12-06 19:37:16	fosslinux	tbh i think the only way to get around these laws is to develop your own software and make it close source
2018-12-06 19:37:20	ryan	any change to any app where the developer of that app is in Australia, should now be looked at very carefully by people not associated with the developer, to look for backdoors
2018-12-06 19:37:37	fosslinux	sure
2018-12-06 19:37:48	fosslinux	ryan: you're not in australia right
2018-12-06 19:37:57	ryan	i am not
2018-12-06 19:38:01	ryan	but daurnimator is
2018-12-06 19:38:06	ryan	sooooo keep watch on #! pull requests :D
2018-12-06 19:38:08	jesopo	australia isnt real
2018-12-06 19:38:15	fosslinux	jesopo: lmao
2018-12-06 19:38:26	fosslinux	how many times have i heard people say that lmao
2018-12-06 19:38:41	jesopo	have you ever seen australia and the uk in the same room
2018-12-06 19:38:43	ryan	probably not as many as "australia is just the UK's prison"
2018-12-06 19:38:43	ahriman	australia has extremely expensive cigarettes
2018-12-06 19:38:43	jesopo	no?
2018-12-06 19:38:45	jesopo	no????
2018-12-06 19:38:47	jesopo	ever wondered why??????
2018-12-06 19:39:08	ryan	no
2018-12-06 19:39:40	jesopo	australia is the uk's prison, america is the uk's religious nut dump
2018-12-06 19:39:43	jesopo	kansas is just awful
2018-12-06 19:39:48	fosslinux	wow
2018-12-06 19:40:40	benharri	wyoming doesn't exist either
2018-12-06 19:41:06	jesopo	are you able to tell me where wyoming is on a map?? no?????
2018-12-06 19:41:10	jesopo	ITS NOT REAL, WAKE UP SHEEPLE
2018-12-06 19:42:35	ryan	but
2018-12-06 19:42:41	ryan	i yeeted myself through wyoming on my way back to Kansas
2018-12-06 19:42:50	ryan	what else would've been there?
2018-12-06 19:43:57	jesopo	fuck
2018-12-06 19:57:44	reynir	What about Finland
2018-12-06 19:58:40	ryan	lah<tab><tab><tab><tab>
2018-12-06 19:58:42	ryan	huh, nope
2018-12-06 19:58:48	ryan	Finland no longer exists
2018-12-06 19:58:55	ryan	looks like lahemi was swallowed up as well
2018-12-06 19:59:13	G-man	can we make Florida not exist next 
2018-12-06 19:59:55	ryan	can i steal you first
2018-12-06 19:59:59	ryan	and *then* make Florida not exist
2018-12-06 20:00:17	ahriman	i wish florida didn't exist
2018-12-06 20:00:54	ahriman	growing up in atlanta every time someone was actually doing the speed limit on the highway, in the far left lane blocking traffic, it was like check their license plate ... yep, fuckin' floridians
2018-12-06 20:01:16	benharri	well you're in luck
2018-12-06 20:01:34	benharri	it's gonna be mostly underwater in the next 20 years
2018-12-06 20:02:15	G-man	good riddance 
2018-12-06 20:03:02	ahriman	hell yes
2018-12-06 20:03:31	benharri	thanks climate change?
2018-12-06 20:04:39	 *	ahriman daps climate change
2018-12-06 20:09:37	jesopo	hi G-man!!!
2018-12-06 20:10:33	G-man	hi!!
2018-12-06 20:11:36	G-man	I mean, I wouldn't buy any fish if they state its from down here. Like, Our water is absolutely fucked. The red tide killed so much
2018-12-06 20:12:58	ryan	not a fan of fish anyways so that works itself out for me :P
2018-12-06 20:14:52	jesopo	wtf fish rock
2018-12-06 20:15:44	G-man	that is a huge positive for me don't sway him any way else
2018-12-06 20:16:06	ryan	i like lobster but not other kinds of seafood
2018-12-06 20:16:10	ryan	oysters, as well
2018-12-06 20:16:19	G-man	:I
2018-12-06 20:16:28	jesopo	i hate shellfish
2018-12-06 20:16:32	jesopo	i love regularfish tho
2018-12-06 20:16:38	benharri	what about fishshell
2018-12-06 20:16:49	ryan	ryan = allfish XOR jesopo 
2018-12-06 20:17:15	jesopo	o3o
2018-12-06 20:20:56	G-man	hey do places in like land lock states actually have like fish places
2018-12-06 20:22:20	ryan	yes
2018-12-06 20:22:21	jesopo	vegas has a lot of shellfood
2018-12-06 20:22:27	ryan	it's just a bit more expensive
2018-12-06 20:22:27	jesopo	shellfish
2018-12-06 20:22:29	jesopo	wow jess
2018-12-06 20:22:38	ryan	except if you're coming from Florida
2018-12-06 20:22:43	ryan	because everything's expensive there already
2018-12-06 20:22:50	jesopo	florida is bad but not as bad as kansas
2018-12-06 20:22:57	G-man	Florida is a nightmare, my dude.
2018-12-06 20:23:04	ryan	lived in both
2018-12-06 20:23:08	ryan	would still prefer Kansas to Florida
2018-12-06 20:24:35	G-man	maybe the bigger places are a bit nicer, but anywhere else really sucks 
2018-12-06 20:24:48	jesopo	i just
2018-12-06 20:24:51	jesopo	want to insult kansas
2018-12-06 20:24:55	jesopo	;-;
2018-12-06 20:25:16	ryan	okay how about this
2018-12-06 20:25:23	ryan	overall Kansas is boring and rural as fuck
2018-12-06 20:25:26	ryan	Wichita isn't that bad tho
2018-12-06 20:25:31	jesopo	well
2018-12-06 20:25:32	jesopo	how about
2018-12-06 20:25:34	jesopo	london is loud and smelly
2018-12-06 20:25:57	ryan	yes so how dare you say that my nice and peaceful city is worse than Florida which is literally hell
2018-12-06 20:26:02	ryan	if anything wichita's better than london
2018-12-06 20:26:08	ryan	:p
2018-12-06 20:26:35	jesopo	at least we dont
2018-12-06 20:26:37	jesopo	have guns
2018-12-06 20:26:39	 *	jesopo runs very fast
2018-12-06 20:26:58	G-man	wow, look at them go
2018-12-06 20:27:06	ryan	well it's not like she can defend herself
2018-12-06 20:27:16	ryan	can't even hold a butter knife
2018-12-06 20:27:39	G-man	florida has a worrying amount of guns used for nefarious reasons 
2018-12-06 20:33:38	jesopo	i mean
2018-12-06 20:33:43	jesopo	use the gun to shoot me and we're cool
2018-12-06 20:33:50	ryan	nah
2018-12-06 20:33:58	ryan	also 'the gun'
2018-12-06 20:34:04	ryan	hey mr criminal mom said it's my turn on the gun
2018-12-06 20:35:15	G-man	*slaps roof of car* this bad boy can fit so many the guns in it 
2018-12-06 20:36:18	ryan	actually
2018-12-06 20:36:21	ryan	let me see if i have the pic
2018-12-06 20:36:55	ryan	oh no i do not
2018-12-06 20:37:39	ryan	but i have like 10 nerf guns in my trunk
2018-12-06 20:38:32	G-man	too many
2018-12-06 20:39:51	ryan	never enough
2018-12-06 20:41:21	jesopo	nerf guns are good
2018-12-06 20:42:13	ryan	i also bought a couple of airsoft guns which i need to bring upstairs sometime
2018-12-06 20:42:44	jesopo	no, bad
2018-12-06 20:42:46	 *	jesopo pushes ryan over
2018-12-06 20:42:54	ryan	rude :p
2018-12-06 21:50:20	sebboh	replying to conversation almost 500 lines ago: yeah gif sucks.  Compression doesn't benefit if much of frame 2 is the same as frame 1... unless you can take advantage of the 'background' feature, were much of a frame is transparent but there is a 'background' layer (maybe frame 1 or 0 or something?  I forget)
2018-12-06 21:52:56	sebboh	there used to be an application called.. GIF Workshop? or something?  I believe it was "shareware" and required a purchase for full functionality, but who knows
2018-12-06 21:53:59	sebboh	Alchemy Mindworks' GIF Construction Set.
2018-12-06 21:54:41	sebboh	http://mindworkshop.com/gifcon.html
2018-12-06 21:54:42	--	Notice([]): s​ebboh: Title "GIF Construction Set Professional" Shortened < https://is.gd/gnX3Mm >
2018-12-06 21:54:55	G-man	thats dedication 
2018-12-06 21:58:51	sebboh	ryan what were you originally using to edit the gif?  Is the gif safe for work?
2018-12-06 22:04:14	sebboh	This tool claims to be useful for reducing gif sizes.  http://www.lcdf.org/gifsicle/  And based on the testimonial section of that page, I am confident that it does what it says on the box.
2018-12-06 22:04:14	--	Notice([]): s​ebboh: Title "Gifsicle: Command-Line Animated GIFs" Shortened < https://is.gd/gwJzNL >
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2018-12-06 22:47:27	dovsienko	hey lrvick
2018-12-06 22:48:13	dovsienko	regarding the server we discussed a few weeks ago, I haven't got a "no" from the manager yet, so give me another week or two please
2018-12-06 22:49:56	meizikyn	if LIBRARY_PATH points to a directory that has "libglib-2.0.s0" in it, why would ld still complain it can't find " -lglib-2.0" ?
2018-12-06 22:50:23	meizikyn	.so* not .s0
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2018-12-06 22:53:44	dovsienko	are you sure LIBRARY_PATH has the same effect as -L ?
2018-12-06 23:26:53	meizikyn	per documentation it does
2018-12-06 23:27:18	meizikyn	LIBRARY_PATH seems to be a away to avoid altering makefiles
2018-12-06 23:27:38	meizikyn	although, I also have -L<path_to_same_dir> in the makefile
2018-12-06 23:28:19	meizikyn	I had another *.so dependency issue fixed with LIBRARY_PATH=<path to that dep>
2018-12-06 23:29:03	meizikyn	and am now attempting multiple path chains with <path_1>:<path_2>:<path_3>
2018-12-06 23:33:11	dovsienko	hmm, I do not remember using LIBRARY_PATH before
2018-12-06 23:34:31	dovsienko	cannot confirm right now whether it is identical to -L or not
2018-12-06 23:35:09	meizikyn	I've used for projects involving SDL2 where I was too lazy to modify makefiles, and had built SDL2 locally
2018-12-06 23:35:12	dovsienko	but it should not be necessary (with a correctly written Makefile) to alter it to modify the library path
2018-12-06 23:35:20	meizikyn	seems strange
2018-12-06 23:35:49	meizikyn	oh, its not so much a makefile as it is a ninja.build
2018-12-06 23:35:59	meizikyn	I've never used ninja, but it calls GCC all the same
2018-12-06 23:36:25	meizikyn	but with static -L<path> calls to global directories, but my lib dependencies are built locally in ~
2018-12-06 23:36:31	dovsienko	Makefiles usually have something like "LIBDIR ?= /usr/lib"
2018-12-06 23:37:16	dovsienko	and then you can let it use the default or you can override without modifying the file like this: "LIBDIR=/usr/local/lib make"
2018-12-06 23:37:32	meizikyn	the ninja.build is auto-generated through some convoluted process I'm unfamiliar with, and rather than using makefile variables appears to use other facilities
2018-12-06 23:37:34	meizikyn	excatly
2018-12-06 23:37:44	dovsienko	or (with configure) "LDFLAGS=-L/usr/local/lib ./configure"
2018-12-06 23:37:47	dovsienko	or some such
2018-12-06 23:37:56	meizikyn	by using LIBRARY_PATH=<path_1>:<path_2> ninja, in this case
2018-12-06 23:38:18	meizikyn	but not being a makefile, I'm quite out of my element
2018-12-06 23:38:57	dovsienko	I am not sure I have any useful input at this time, sorry
2018-12-06 23:39:19	meizikyn	ninja seems an unnecessary alternative to makefiles, but is used by SSHFS (and libfuse, and glib, and util-linux) as I've found out over the course of dependency hunting
2018-12-06 23:39:29	meizikyn	the world up and changed to ninja overnight or some such
2018-12-06 23:41:22	dovsienko	I thought it was cmake that was trying to take over...
2018-12-06 23:41:55	dovsienko	and many years before that the autotools, of course
2018-12-06 23:43:27	meizikyn	I'd never even heard of ninja before today
2018-12-06 23:44:26	dovsienko	I first had seen it on a project in 2013, and I thought it was a local build tool authored by the developers of the project
2018-12-06 23:45:43	dovsienko	AFAIR, the project build process was a bit unusual in that it exited with success regardless of whether the binary was actually built
2018-12-06 23:45:51	meizikyn	turns out ninja in combination with meson became common in a lot of libraries (or at least the rather common ones I've had to collect today)
2018-12-06 23:46:12	dovsienko	ninja definitely had one stage in that
2018-12-06 23:59:08	dovsienko	alright, ttyl
2018-12-07 01:29:20	meizikyn	sorry, left school to head home
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2018-12-07 02:19:40	viaken	reynir: It only gives the wrong answer part of the time.
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2018-12-07 02:30:05	viaken	sebboh: Gimp can "motion optimize" GIFs like that.
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2018-12-07 08:14:56	von	Plop all :)
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2018-12-07 13:57:58	ryan	sebboh: it is SFW, it wasn't me but instead another person who managed the repo
2018-12-07 13:58:14	ryan	we gave up on it entirely because it would require rewriting history to *actually* get the size down
2018-12-07 14:14:50	sebboh	ah yes, the nature of repos, ryan.
2018-12-07 14:19:59	sebboh	but wow, yes, that gif is stupid huge for what it contains!  :(
2018-12-07 15:02:22	meizikyn	is there a hashbang equivalent to NickServ?
2018-12-07 15:02:45	fwiw	not currently
2018-12-07 15:02:49	fwiw	blame ryan 
2018-12-07 15:03:09	meizikyn	hah, no worries, just making sure I'm not crazy
2018-12-07 15:03:13	ryan	i'm not the one who made the decision to bastardize CoreOS >:I
2018-12-07 15:03:27	fwiw	but you deserve it!
2018-12-07 15:03:48	meizikyn	bastardize CoreOS? not a fan of debian ? :P
2018-12-07 15:03:55	ryan	/kick fwiw >:I
2018-12-07 15:04:23	ryan	meizikyn: we used CoreOS because at the time it looked like the best system to easily get Docker running on
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2018-12-07 15:28:26	von	Quick question, how do I start the SimpleHTTPServer.service if i'm not root ? I couldn't find it myself with the infos in the email ^^'
2018-12-07 15:28:26	--	Notice([]): v​on: Shortened < https://is.gd/O3VnQI >
2018-12-07 15:29:03	trinary	systemctl --user start SimpleHTTPServer
2018-12-07 15:29:46	trinary	Though you may want to edit the config in ~/.config/systemd/user before doing that
2018-12-07 15:29:47	von	a
2018-12-07 15:29:58	von	I needed that --user argument x)
2018-12-07 15:30:14	von	Why didn't I think of it :| Thanks a lot !!
2018-12-07 15:30:20	polprog	you wouldnt be able to start a server on port 80 that way would you
2018-12-07 15:30:49	von	Don't worry, I just needed that last puzzle piece :)
2018-12-07 15:31:09	polprog	no, im asking out of curiosity
2018-12-07 15:31:37	polprog	heh, i should buy a total commander license for christmas
2018-12-07 15:31:46	von	According to the email it must be over 1024 to work, so I guess not
2018-12-07 15:31:52	polprog	email?
2018-12-07 15:33:17	von	yeah, when I first connect here I had an email in mutt explaining that
2018-12-07 15:33:24	polprog	ah, ok
2018-12-07 15:34:43	polprog	lol i actually have mutt installed here, and it had my gmail pw in plain text
2018-12-07 15:35:01	polprog	i guess gmail disabled that since it cant connect and the pw is right
2018-12-07 15:41:56	polprog	huh. just got a notification that someone tried to log into my account
2018-12-07 15:42:03	polprog	it was me you mountain view dorks
2018-12-07 15:45:58	von	Perfect : http://to1.hashbang.sh:7465/
2018-12-07 15:45:58	--	Notice([]): v​on: Shortened < https://is.gd/yW4UBo >
2018-12-07 15:52:10	polprog	aaaaaaaaaaaaa
2018-12-07 15:52:49	von	https://0x0.st/slz6.jpg
2018-12-07 15:52:50	--	Notice([]): v​on: Shortened < https://is.gd/AJGHqB >
2018-12-07 15:53:04	polprog	try http://872338538
2018-12-07 15:54:49	von	polprog: Wow, that's awesome :D
2018-12-07 15:55:15	polprog	:D
2018-12-07 15:55:35	polprog	decimal ipv4 is the most nonsensical notation
2018-12-07 15:55:36	polprog	:D
2018-12-07 15:55:42	polprog	looks like a phone number tho
2018-12-07 15:55:53	polprog	lol, it actually has 9 digits
2018-12-07 15:58:55	von	i'll only share my blog url like that now :D
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2018-12-07 16:04:59	polprog	http://0-800-POL-PROG
2018-12-07 16:05:02	polprog	:D
2018-12-07 16:05:12	polprog	lol, the shotener bot did not catch that
2018-12-07 16:05:24	polprog	im sure noone greps for IPs in that form
2018-12-07 16:05:56	von	Hm, it has hard time with subdomains :P
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2018-12-07 16:18:44	von	Well, my direct IPs send to 404 ^^
2018-12-07 16:19:59	von	too bad. I wanted something like http://www.youporn.com@872338538
2018-12-07 16:20:15	von	Perfect on a resume
2018-12-07 16:22:03	nu|L	not a starbucks resume
2018-12-07 16:27:46	meizikyn	so I have now successfully built sshfs, to find fusermount is disabled for users xD
2018-12-07 16:29:11	reynir	\o/
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2018-12-07 16:55:12	von	Got to go ! Bye everyone ! See you on monday :)
2018-12-07 16:55:25	reynir	See you!
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2018-12-07 17:58:55	viaken	ryan: giphy reduces that gif from 4.2M to 57K.
2018-12-07 18:41:26	rafasc	do you guys know about any good distributed git bug tracker?
2018-12-07 18:42:03	ryan	we were working on one at one point
2018-12-07 18:42:09	ryan	lrvick: did that ever get anywhere?
2018-12-07 18:42:46	rafasc	https://github.com/MichaelMure/git-bug looked like a good candidate.
2018-12-07 18:42:47	--	Notice([]): r​afasc: Title "GitHub - MichaelMure/git-bug: Distributed bug tracker embedded in Git" Shortened < https://is.gd/rhTeZt >
2018-12-07 18:44:46	rafasc	but having doubts, because it seems it is centralized locally. By that, I mean you can pull from many remotes, but once you get the data it goes all in the same bag.
2018-12-07 18:49:17	trinary	Any why is that bad?
2018-12-07 18:52:58	ryan	I assume that means that since it's merged, you can end up pushing multiple bugs from multiple remotes, to a single remote
2018-12-07 18:53:17	rafasc	Because basically forbids to keep bugs coming from different remotes separate.
2018-12-07 18:53:23	sighidk	test
2018-12-07 18:53:33	reynir	test
2018-12-07 18:53:35	ryan	sighidk: test failed? :D
2018-12-07 18:53:40	sighidk	nope
2018-12-07 18:53:55	rafasc	once you pull from remote A, if you push to remote B, it will migrate all bugs from A to B.
2018-12-07 18:54:06	ryan	right so what i said :p
2018-12-07 18:54:18	ryan	so there's no namespacing per-remote
2018-12-07 18:55:01	rafasc	I am not sure, but I think that's the case.
2018-12-07 18:56:05	rafasc	I am responding to my own RFC there. Just wanted a reality check.
2018-12-07 18:56:32	rafasc	by ryan's responde made me confident that this should be obvious enough. And it isn't just me.
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2018-12-07 18:56:47	ryan	it's a concern i thought of immediately
2018-12-07 18:56:55	ryan	if i pull from a remote, does that corrupt my local copy so i can't push it?
2018-12-07 18:57:26	ryan	i work on a PR-heavy project now so it's something that popped in my mind if i applied it to that project now
2018-12-07 18:58:32	bee	\q
2018-12-07 18:58:35	rafasc	ryan: No, that part is well done as far as I can tell.
2018-12-07 18:58:44	bee	whoops...
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2018-12-07 23:24:19	fosslinux	??
2018-12-07 23:24:20	fosslinux	?
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2018-12-09 03:22:39	fosslinux	whats the irc bridge?
2018-12-09 03:31:52	fosslinux	ryan:
2018-12-09 03:32:19	ryan	What IRC bridge?
2018-12-09 03:32:28	fosslinux	HashbangIRCBridge
2018-12-09 03:32:39	fosslinux	14:27:36              --> | HashbangIRCBridge (matrixirc@4906402E.44685189.65F83255.IP) has joined #!
2018-12-09 03:32:39	--	Notice([]): f​osslinux: Shortened < https://is.gd/OmeVaz >
2018-12-09 03:40:22	fwiw	I guess matrix to hashbang irc bridge?
2018-12-09 03:41:10	fosslinux	hm ok
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2018-12-09 04:23:36	ryan	Not official
2018-12-09 04:23:41	ryan	Not sure who runs it tho
2018-12-09 04:34:57	fosslinux	righto!
2018-12-09 04:51:10	--	Nicks #!: [[] a4ro aaaa aada aada1 aada2 aagat adra aewens ahriman aipdimi aipdimi1 aisockets alias5100 aloha alx alx1 amar andrew[andrboot] Andrio Anna apetresc applethegolden aris atx avalyn avalyn1 b0bb badgirl bang1215 barnold bbbybbsn benharri benley bercik bfoxy bgiannan bibek billy549 blopp blurmuir bort bronikowski cadams cascode cestevens cleanshirt clody coltondrg cometsong commloss cosarara crazylove835 cunnings cxl d8bug Dan-NS27 daurnimator dch demon derpgusta1 DeviaVir devopsdeluxe dgrove director7 djm djpohly dovsienko drot dzho echelon eggy EHG elven ensan3 EpicKitty epicmorphism epimorphism erin esbullin eval fatpointer finalstaticfox flamwenco1 fmirkes foamy fosslinux fr0ddy fwiw gdrz genpaku gkoutsog gmalato gsattle guiscaranse h4nk hallamsmith handyc happycoffeebean HashbangIRCBridge hdb2 heatingdevice heph hfuller holla3 holymolly hornest Icedream ihalip illegalprime imanulyaqin indigodaddy integral ivstefn ixanili jake1 jcaldow jcardenas jee jesopo jlee jpt jrmu jrwr jtru k8o k8o1 karakarga kauhat KellerKatze kellertest key knight ko koren krael krisfremen l1nkd l2dy lagom Larsenv larsenv1 liumkattan liya1 lrvick lw Maki mark1 marlyn marshall Mateon1 matthias maxii MaxLeiter mayli mayli1 mayli[da1] mcdonalds mdom meep megaj meizikyn mihi_tmux mikea minerobber[team] mjkit mjkit1 mjlassila mlyons Mokita mrirenne mufasa myricae n0c napcae nckx neersighted nepi netprivi nithael noah noir notpushkin notslip nuclearpesto odie ohattsh opcode panicbit pihat pihat1 polprog potatoe praetor project3 pwagner pyrolagus quetzalcoatl qwertzy r080 r2d2 r4 rakon raven rdap red reynir rff32k rgu rkenwel rmo rofopaje roundtree rvolosatovs ryan safeith saidinwot sam sapeint Saphire scat scholarch scholarchdist scifi scockram sebboh sebbu sebweb seedbox shwoop sighidk sjossi sjw slipxy slipyx smokeypanda snurryboy sparksjoy squareguy sstewart steveg stilldavid stinethebean sweetjp t3chnolog1c tetsuharu tga1111 TheCryptek tinyrick tmpope tohei Trangar transalp trimurti trinary trunkie tseng tso tunas tylerlevine ubergeek unmd1 unnamed user1 useruser vantablack vc viaken virepri vmo vmo2 von1 von_ wasylews waterbury willa wilsonfisk worg wxs4274 XandriX xesu yifan ZachBacon zeekay]
2018-12-09 04:51:10	--	Channel #!: 284 nicks (0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 284 normals)
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2018-12-09 06:41:28	fwiw	lefto
2018-12-09 08:36:46	tseng	ryan: it was run by a 'kliu', but they haven't been here for a while now
2018-12-09 08:38:52	tseng	personally, i'm in favor of k-lining that thing
2018-12-09 08:41:48	tseng	at best, it's someone's forgotten afternoon project
2018-12-09 08:43:29	tseng	but at most, it's a one-way communication with who knows who's reading, and it keeps trying to enter a room where it's not welcome
2018-12-09 08:45:48	tseng	and i can't figure out why its operator chose /that/ one room aside from #!. more populated/active rooms i could understand
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2018-12-09 14:10:50	viaken	fosslinux: ryan: I run it and it's broke. :P IRC->Matrix works fine, but Matrix->IRC the messages never arrive. Dunno why.
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2018-12-09 14:11:09	viaken	Haven't spent much time debugging yet.
2018-12-09 14:12:24	viaken	Oh wait
2018-12-09 14:12:26	viaken	That one isn't mine
2018-12-09 14:12:29	viaken	I had a different one.
2018-12-09 14:19:20	 *	tseng slow claps
2018-12-09 14:22:30	viaken	I should finish readnig before responding.
2018-12-09 14:22:35	viaken	bye all
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2018-12-09 14:40:57	 *	Andrio calls the police.
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2018-12-09 14:41:07	tseng	i do not approve.
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2018-12-09 15:24:55	meizikyn	How do files from ~/.dotfiles get linked into ~, is it a tool like yadm, or a login script specific to #!/hashbangctl ?
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2018-12-09 15:58:30	epicmorphism	lol matrix
2018-12-09 15:59:27	tseng	fuck matrix
2018-12-09 15:59:48	tseng	or at least bridging it to irc
2018-12-09 16:01:10	polprog	what are those mass parts/joins
2018-12-09 16:01:19	polprog	matrix.org bridges?
2018-12-09 16:01:23	tseng	viaken's bridge from #! irc to matrix
2018-12-09 16:01:27	polprog	ah
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2018-12-09 16:42:28	reynir	oh man, the qubes-os matrix channel is run by a megalomanic idiot
2018-12-09 16:42:44	reynir	he's given me a really poor impression of the matrix community
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2018-12-09 17:49:51	polprog	what do you expect from a lunatic who made an OS like that
2018-12-09 17:50:03	polprog	im sure he has traps around his house in case the cia wanted to kill him at night
2018-12-09 18:00:18	ryan	meizikyn: we use Stow
2018-12-09 18:00:29	ryan	It's a neat tool for managing symlinks
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2018-12-09 18:26:01	viaken	I screwed up my config, everybody. Sorry.
2018-12-09 18:26:07	viaken	It shouldn't have been a mass event.
2018-12-09 18:27:08	viaken	For those troubled by that, weechat has a "smart filter" for joins/parts. It hides them unless the user's spoken within some time period before/after the event.
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2018-12-09 19:21:31	polprog	i need to get that in irssi
2018-12-09 19:23:26	jesopo	i forgive u viaken 
2018-12-09 19:25:54	fwiw	me too viaken
2018-12-09 19:34:04	viaken	Thanks <3 :)
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2018-12-09 20:14:02	deejoe	hmm
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2018-12-09 21:27:21	meizikyn	ryan: thanks, I almost didn't see on account of the *IRC weirdness above 0.o
2018-12-09 21:28:31	meizikyn	I've been making adjustments to yadm to support different dotfiles directories, I may add functionality for packages of dotfiles using stow as a backend
2018-12-09 21:38:55	tunas	polprog: What's the problem with Qubes?
2018-12-09 21:39:04	tunas	I tried it out, it wasn't too bad.
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2018-12-09 21:50:15	polprog	tunas: its just illusion of privacy in my opinion
2018-12-09 21:50:32	tunas	In that case, everything is an illusion of privacy.
2018-12-09 21:50:35	tunas	Wouldn't you agree?
2018-12-09 21:50:38	polprog	yeah
2018-12-09 21:51:03	polprog	what i mean, is that it doesnt matter that you are using qubes os when you are doing 10 other things that make you overall have less privacy
2018-12-09 21:51:14	tunas	I don't expect it to be a foolproof way for me to be able to do horrible things under a shroud.
2018-12-09 21:51:25	tunas	Yes, other practices will give you away, no matter what.
2018-12-09 21:51:25	polprog	do you pour gas over the laptop after you're done with it and set it ablaze?
2018-12-09 21:51:30	tunas	Neeeeope.
2018-12-09 21:51:31	tunas	:P
2018-12-09 21:51:32	polprog	:P
2018-12-09 21:51:42	polprog	its not a bad os. its a cool new idea
2018-12-09 21:51:56	polprog	but in practice... its not that easy as "just throw it in a VM:
2018-12-09 21:51:57	polprog	:D
2018-12-09 21:52:56	polprog	im thinking about getting an amiga on xmas
2018-12-09 21:53:16	tunas	Oh, which one?
2018-12-09 21:53:38	polprog	havent decided yet. we wound a good a500 online locally
2018-12-09 21:53:52	polprog	i have no idea how they work, i know they are dead simple m68k 
2018-12-09 21:54:06	polprog	im trying to look up what is a "cpu card"
2018-12-09 21:54:34	polprog	ultimately.... this: http://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/amiga/ is what i wanna ty running
2018-12-09 21:54:35	--	Notice([]): p​olprog: Title "NetBSD/amiga" Shortened < https://is.gd/SDMrcb >
2018-12-09 21:54:44	polprog	plus, its a great hacking project
2018-12-09 21:54:53	polprog	i could make expansion cards for it i guess
2018-12-09 21:55:16	polprog	i have no idea what got into my dad
2018-12-09 21:55:29	tunas	Your dad wants one?
2018-12-09 21:55:32	polprog	since he came to me this morning and asked me to check how much are amigas going for 
2018-12-09 21:55:34	polprog	yeah
2018-12-09 21:55:50	tunas	Lol, what a cool dad :D
2018-12-09 21:56:06	polprog	we need a monitor as well, so i found some cheap RGB CRT. like a Commodore branded VGA crt
2018-12-09 21:56:14	polprog	and hes like "no, it has to be original"
2018-12-09 21:56:15	polprog	lol
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2018-12-09 21:56:25	polprog	i thouhgt he hated CRTs :D
2018-12-09 21:56:57	polprog	if everything goes well were gonna have a cool amiga setup with a cool CRT that i could use for all my electronic stuff
2018-12-09 21:57:09	polprog	i always wanted to design some cool video hardware
2018-12-09 21:57:48	polprog	lol this video
2018-12-09 21:57:50	polprog	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q86UBoXYs3A
2018-12-09 21:57:50	--	Notice([]): p​olprog: Title "uClinux on Amiga 1200 - YouTube" Shortened < https://is.gd/vyx08E >
2018-12-09 21:57:54	polprog	like..
2018-12-09 21:57:57	polprog	what is this 
2018-12-09 21:58:01	polprog	why is this music in there
2018-12-09 21:58:49	polprog	"Great Video... And one more thing... AMIGA with old software and hardware is still TRUE multitasking not what Windows "Emulates" in Windows 7 and 8, still is no multitasking"
2018-12-09 21:58:59	polprog	are they really thinking w7 is running on top of dos
2018-12-09 21:59:09	polprog	ummm
2018-12-09 21:59:37	tunas	>windows 7 or 8 not multitasking
2018-12-09 21:59:43	tunas	What is wrong with this person?
2018-12-09 21:59:49	polprog	right??
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2018-12-10 00:59:40	marlyn	Isn't qubes more of a security than a privacy thing
2018-12-10 01:00:43	marlyn	e.g. preventing data bleeds from some app slurping up what it can see of the filesystem/x server/etc.
2018-12-10 01:01:01	marlyn	Anyways, I found this, and it's neat https://github.com/rastapasta/mapscii
2018-12-10 01:01:02	--	Notice([]): m​arlyn: Title "GitHub - rastapasta/mapscii: 🗺 MapSCII is a Braille & ASCII world map renderer for your console - enter => telnet mapscii.me <= on Mac and Linux, connect with PuTTY on Windows" Shortened < https://is.gd/5HyijL >
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2018-12-10 02:18:14	marlyn	I'm finding day 7 of aoc to be tricky when done with rust
2018-12-10 02:18:21	marlyn	But maybe I'm using the wrong architecture
2018-12-10 02:18:48	marlyn	My naive approach is to use a tree structure of some sort to keep track of the dependencies, but rust really doesn't like tree structures
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2018-12-10 02:47:40	Andrio	How's that?
2018-12-10 02:48:52	viaken	Does it not?
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2018-12-10 03:10:50	marlyn	Maybe I don't grok the lifetimes system well enough yet, but if I try to make a struct that contains a vec of references to its own type, rust's lifetime system gets a big frowny face
2018-12-10 03:12:07	Andrio	Is that why it's called Rust?
2018-12-10 03:13:13	marlyn	I tried this `indextree` crate, but it doesn't allow you to make arbitrary links: Setting a node as a child removes it as a child from its old parent
2018-12-10 03:14:12	marlyn	Maybe, if I borrowed that crate's "Arena" architecture, but instead appropriated for my data type, it might work nicer?
2018-12-10 03:19:01	marlyn	Though, wait, I think I'd still need to use some kind of kludge of refcells, yuck
2018-12-10 03:19:44	marlyn	Since I wouldn't be able to directly mutate a node that had a reference stored elsewhere
2018-12-10 03:22:24	marlyn	https://gist.github.com/Crazylemon64/b50c1efe8ba5e0efa79d703543543bda
2018-12-10 03:22:25	--	Notice([]): m​arlyn: Title "Day 07 AOC WIP implementation · GitHub" Shortened < https://is.gd/YraFQF >
2018-12-10 03:22:35	marlyn	Here's the most recent working version of my solution, my rust is very ugly
2018-12-10 03:22:58	marlyn	Still don't have the hang of wrangling Options and Results without tangling them in a knot of unwraps
2018-12-10 03:23:44	marlyn	("working" as in it compiles and produces output, albeit invalid)
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2018-12-10 08:07:26	von	Plop people :)
2018-12-10 08:07:34	ryan	\o
2018-12-10 08:14:58	Andrio	:o
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2018-12-10 08:28:18	fwiw	*surprised pikachu*
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2018-12-10 13:02:36	epimorphism	Anyone here used Guix or Nix?
2018-12-10 14:09:08	dch	Guix is awesome.
2018-12-10 14:09:30	dch	I know because I've been through the install process maybe 6 times
2018-12-10 14:09:32	 *	ryan nudges https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/34#discussion_r221702604 into the channel and runs off
2018-12-10 14:09:46	 *	Trangar nudges ryan off a cliff
2018-12-10 14:09:55	ryan	>:I
2018-12-10 14:09:57	ryan	rude
2018-12-10 14:10:54	Trangar	<3
2018-12-10 14:35:00	KellerKatze	epimorphism: IIRC, benley and trinary do; I've played with it a bit, and with Guix a bit more.
2018-12-10 14:38:29	KellerKatze	I liked Guix more, because having an actual LISP to do weird thing inside the package system is nice, or at least nicer than the DSL Nix has.
2018-12-10 14:39:02	trinary	v​iaken, p​anicbit, and a​shkitten have used it too
2018-12-10 14:41:28	KellerKatze	<3
2018-12-10 14:41:40	KellerKatze	l1nkd is good kitty
2018-12-10 14:47:15	epimorphism	I tried installing Guix today, but installing the hello-world package pulls several versions of gcc and whatnot
2018-12-10 14:47:22	epimorphism	and takes like hours to compile?
2018-12-10 14:47:29	epimorphism	Idk perhaps I am doing something wrong.
2018-12-10 14:47:32	jesopo	hi
2018-12-10 14:47:35	epimorphism	I tried to install it over my ubuntu setup
2018-12-10 14:55:40	epimorphism	i guess i will try to build it again
2018-12-10 14:55:50	epimorphism	> guix package -i glibc-utf8-locales
2018-12-10 14:55:55	epimorphism	> installing gcc from source
2018-12-10 14:55:55	epimorphism	:<M
2018-12-10 14:57:05	epimorphism	trinary: do you use GuixSD or do you just use Guix as part of another Linux system?
2018-12-10 14:58:18	trinary	epimorphism - I only used Nix/NixOS for longer periods of time (GuixSD died during installation)
2018-12-10 14:59:00	trinary	epimorphism - But since Guix is based on Nix, the probably have the same binary caches that Nix does, which usually prevent you from building packages from source
2018-12-10 14:59:05	trinary	jesopo - hi!
2018-12-10 15:01:11	KellerKatze	trinary: AFAIK, Guix isn't based at all on Nix, just inspired by it?
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2018-12-10 15:06:22	trinary	Wikipedia says it is, and half their terminology matches Nix exactly
2018-12-10 15:06:37	trinary	E.g. they use narinfos too, where NAR is Nix Archive
2018-12-10 15:13:11	trinary	If you look at the first few guix commits, you'll find it mentions nix-{server{?,-major-version,-minor-version,-socket}}, and connects to /nix/var/nix/daemon-socket/socket
2018-12-10 15:13:57	KellerKatze	Oh, ok; TIL
2018-12-10 15:19:23	epimorphism	hm I added the guix hydra to the `guix archive` but it still wants to build stuff from source
2018-12-10 15:26:32	trinary	guix archive looks like it's entirely the wrong direction
2018-12-10 15:27:08	trinary	But you really should be asking freenode/#guix
2018-12-10 15:27:24	trinary	Oh, you did
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2018-12-10 15:39:29	epimorphism	trinary: sorry of course
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2018-12-10 17:33:16	viaken	https://www.emojicode.org/ lol
2018-12-10 17:33:16	--	Notice([]): v​iaken: Title "Emojicode" Shortened < https://is.gd/Rama0R >
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2018-12-10 19:09:43	l1nkd	KellerKatze: weh
2018-12-10 19:10:05	 *	KellerKatze pats l1nkd's head
2018-12-10 19:10:15	l1nkd	aaa,,
2018-12-10 19:12:18	KellerKatze	:)
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2018-12-10 19:31:26	wxs4274	?
2018-12-10 20:02:52	jesopo	trinary: hi!
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2018-12-10 22:12:36	meizikyn	SSH tunneling is allowed here, yes?
2018-12-10 22:13:53	ryan	yeah
2018-12-10 22:13:59	meizikyn	(:
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2018-12-11 02:22:24	fatpointer	What do you need SSH tunneling for again?
2018-12-11 02:22:38	 *	fatpointer sorta forgot what that could be used for
2018-12-11 02:25:13	Andrio	I've used it for a VNC server.
2018-12-11 02:25:35	Andrio	I've also used it to access my router's config remotely through the server we have at home.
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2018-12-11 11:58:14	KellerKatze	fatpointer: Bypassing silly egress firewalls, making some service housed behind a firewall/NAT accessible from outside (i.e. bypassing ingress firewalls), mds
2018-12-11 11:58:16	KellerKatze	mew*
2018-12-11 11:59:06	Andrio	Mew>
2018-12-11 11:59:07	Andrio	?
2018-12-11 12:21:44	KellerKatze	Failing to think of more examples
2018-12-11 12:22:05	KellerKatze	Oh, yes, SSH forwarding UNIX sockets is useful to interact with services on a remote machine
2018-12-11 12:22:19	ryan	I used to have SSH into my home network through #!
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2018-12-11 12:45:44	epimorphism	hi
2018-12-11 12:47:59	von	Is it not possible to change the default shell ? chsh returns PAM: Permission denied :/
2018-12-11 12:48:15	KellerKatze	ryan: Yeah, that's and exemple of the NAT/ingress-firewall bypass I mentionned
2018-12-11 12:48:23	KellerKatze	von: hashbangctl is the thing you want
2018-12-11 12:48:34	KellerKatze	because user preferences are kept in LDAP
2018-12-11 12:48:46	epimorphism	funnily enough i cannot run hashbangctl on fish
2018-12-11 12:48:49	epimorphism	i have to start bash first
2018-12-11 12:49:19	KellerKatze	epimorphism: sudo hashbangctl should do it
2018-12-11 12:49:38	KellerKatze	On bash and ZSH, we just alias hashbangctl to that
2018-12-11 12:50:17	KellerKatze	and I thought we merged a PR that added it to fish, but perhaps I'm misremembering (or you don't use the default dotfiles, which is entirely fine)
2018-12-11 12:50:49	von	Ah right ! And now how do I apply changes ?
2018-12-11 12:50:52	epimorphism	maybe i need to update my dotfiles somehow?
2018-12-11 12:50:54	epimorphism	idk
2018-12-11 12:51:25	KellerKatze	von: What do you mean?
2018-12-11 12:51:51	KellerKatze	epimorphism: git -C ~/.dotfiles pull ?
2018-12-11 12:52:21	von	KellerKatze: well, I saved and quit but it's still bash
2018-12-11 12:53:57	KellerKatze	von: Yes, because a login shell is only started when you connect.  If you disconnect and reconnect, it will start fish, but the first thing it should do is attach you to a tmux that still thinks your default shell is bash
2018-12-11 12:55:04	KellerKatze	so you also need to either restart tmux (which will effectively kill all your processes, including weechat) or update the default shell in the running tmux session
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2018-12-11 12:55:54	KellerKatze	which can be done with the `:set default-option` command
2018-12-11 12:56:27	von	yeah I'm already on a tmux, thats why :/ I restarted tmux, it's ok :)
2018-12-11 12:56:29	von	Thanks !
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2018-12-11 13:09:25	KellerKatze	von: You are welcome  :)
2018-12-11 13:12:30	KellerKatze	von: FWIW, the LDAP data is cached by SSSd, so that can cause hashbangctl changes not to be visible immediately; that won't be an issue with userdb (because shell servers will have a read-only replica of the DB with live updates, rather than a cache) but userdb isn't here yet because people need to allocate the time and energy to finish it (and that includes me)
2018-12-11 13:13:31	von	KellerKatze: haha it's ok, I'm already impressed by the infrastructure of this place, as well as the hashbangctl command to interact with the LDAP :)
2018-12-11 13:15:53	KellerKatze	Oh, there are plenty of things that could be improved; thankfully, all our config and scripts are in git and publicly visible, so you can propose changes to any aspect of the #! infrastructure  :)
2018-12-11 13:16:24	fwiw	naruhodo
2018-12-11 13:16:37	KellerKatze	fwiw: Wut?
2018-12-11 13:16:49	fwiw	I see
2018-12-11 14:49:31	reynir	someone pls motivate me to get out of the door
2018-12-11 14:54:03	benharri	get out of the door
2018-12-11 14:54:09	benharri	why are you standing in the door anywya
2018-12-11 15:05:29	reynir	thx
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2018-12-11 15:34:10	fwiw	!m reynir
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2018-12-11 17:05:50	viaken	reynir: !w
2018-12-11 17:05:55	viaken	That wasn't what I wanted
2018-12-11 17:05:56	viaken	lol
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2018-12-11 19:33:54	fosslinux	reynir: wth why were you in the dooor thats a bit weirf
2018-12-11 19:33:59	fosslinux	s/weirf/weird
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2018-12-11 20:57:53	napcae	yeah its way too cold outside
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2018-12-11 20:58:10	jesopo	solution: stay inside
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2018-12-12 03:09:21	ryan	i'm looking into info-beamer for a custom project
2018-12-12 03:09:27	ryan	it's a shame that the pi version requires payment :(
2018-12-12 03:11:56	ryan	it has a `util.file_watch` function that's not in the open-source version... but it ships with lua-cjson so you can easily just implement it yourself..?
2018-12-12 03:19:27	ryan	oh, no, it doesn't - but it's not open source. so. :I
2018-12-12 03:44:46	ryan	no i meant util.json_watch()
2018-12-12 03:45:05	 *	ryan is doing /great/ tonight
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2018-12-12 07:08:15	dgrove	Trying to merge https://github.com/hashbang/admin-tools/pull/145 from KellerKatze, but it appears that since it's a PR from a fork you have to merge into a local branch, get a review, then merge into the main app?
2018-12-12 07:08:16	--	Notice([]): d​grove: Title "postfix: Adapt configuration after switch to Let's Encrypt by KellerFuchs · Pull Request #145 · hashbang/admin-tools · GitHub" Shortened < https://is.gd/CqeqWX >
2018-12-12 07:08:23	dgrove	lrvick, ryan?
2018-12-12 07:08:54	ryan	i don't know how to do github merges with required checks, without a big-green-button merge.
2018-12-12 07:11:16	fosslinux	how did you do the -- Notice thing
2018-12-12 07:12:07	ryan	/notice [channel] <message>
2018-12-12 07:12:15	dgrove	fosslinux: [] will do that when links get dropped, or that ^
2018-12-12 07:12:35	fosslinux	ohhh
2018-12-12 07:12:42	--	Notice -> #!: testing
2018-12-12 07:12:46	fosslinux	ahhh
2018-12-12 07:13:15	fosslinux	thx
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2018-12-12 08:52:24	KellerKatze	dgrove: Eh, no?  You have to fetch that branch, but you can do that either by adding my repo as a remote, or by fetching the pr ref on the hashbang/admin-tools repo
2018-12-12 09:03:45	--	Notice(github): [admin-tools] drGrove pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/fp50t
2018-12-12 09:03:45	--	Notice(github): admin-tools/master 8a88c39 The Fox in the Shell: postfix: Comment-out smtpd_tls_CAfile...
2018-12-12 09:03:45	--	Notice(github): admin-tools/master 07de556 Danny Grove: Merge branch 'smtpd-letencrypt'
2018-12-12 09:03:46	--	Notice(github): [admin-tools] drGrove closed pull request #145: postfix: Adapt configuration after switch to Let's Encrypt (master...smtpd-letencrypt) https://git.io/fpJID
2018-12-12 09:04:12	dgrove	Thanks for the heads up KellerKatze. Can you merge the board PR?
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2018-12-12 11:08:42	KellerKatze	dgrove: I'm currently travelling, so I can't unexpire my signing key to sign the merge commit.  :(
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2018-12-12 13:36:12	libgrog	Ahoy!
2018-12-12 13:45:54	napcae	hey libgrog 
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2018-12-12 15:40:54	gscott	yo!
2018-12-12 15:41:52	ryan	Greetings.
2018-12-12 15:42:41	gscott	I haven't been on here in like 2 years lol
2018-12-12 15:43:53	epimorphism	welcome back gscott
2018-12-12 15:44:03	gscott	yo!  I think my previous username was MrsButterworps
2018-12-12 15:44:48	ryan	i don't remember anyone by that nick, it might've just been gscott? :P
2018-12-12 15:44:53	gscott	Glad to see this is still active
2018-12-12 15:45:05	gscott	could have been
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2018-12-12 15:45:47	gscott	but yeah I completely broke my shell in here a few years ago and couldn't get back in.  Decided to give it a go again this morning
2018-12-12 15:53:57	ryan	well next time you do it, you can just connect to irc.hashbang.sh port 6697 with SSL
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2018-12-12 16:05:07	gscott	are you guys still running on coreOS?
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2018-12-12 16:09:49	ryan	for now
2018-12-12 16:10:15	ryan	there's apparently an attempt to move to kubernetes which i'm not entirely a fan of but apparently that's now the way to do things
2018-12-12 16:36:34	lrvick	hey long time no see
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2018-12-12 17:05:01	gscott	yo duder!
2018-12-12 17:12:12	stinethebean	gscott: hello! i remember both usernames. 
2018-12-12 17:20:29	gscott	haaaaaaay!
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2018-12-12 17:42:12	reynir	stinetheelephant
2018-12-12 17:42:37	reynir	(elephants never forget a nick)
2018-12-12 17:43:12	gscott	lol
2018-12-12 17:53:01	viaken	Hey gscott! I remember both names as well.
2018-12-12 18:17:37	gscott	aye!
2018-12-12 19:25:08	KellerKatze	gscott: Recalling both too
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2018-12-13 03:39:59	meizikyn	hello all
2018-12-13 03:40:12	viaken	hi!
2018-12-13 03:40:20	 *	viaken -> bed
2018-12-13 03:41:43	slipyx	error: left of -> must be a pointer to a struct or union. did you mean .?
2018-12-13 03:55:21	ryan	Doesn't Go use -> for channels?
2018-12-13 03:55:40	ryan	No, <-, whoops
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2018-12-13 04:40:59	G-man	hey guys did you know its orange season 
2018-12-13 04:50:14	gscott	ooooo yall doing golang?
2018-12-13 04:57:26	ryan	I don't, just knew that from a friend's project
2018-12-13 04:57:40	ryan	lrvick: apparently, Edge has FIDO2 support
2018-12-13 05:13:58	utsuro	q
2018-12-13 05:14:00	utsuro	/q
2018-12-13 05:14:04	utsuro	\q
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2018-12-13 05:40:54	gscott	he got it!
2018-12-13 05:55:19	Trangar	:q
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2018-12-13 11:11:12	KellerKatze	ryan: Sending a bed at viaken would be pretty different from sending viaken to bed.
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2018-12-13 15:30:55	viaken	gscott: Some people here have used golang. aagat I know has done some work in it.
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2018-12-13 18:43:48	lrvick	I like a lot of things about golang
2018-12-13 18:44:06	lrvick	though these days I am favoring Rust a lot more for security sensitive use cases
2018-12-13 18:44:19	lrvick	no matter what anyone tells you: C is not designed for humans
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2018-12-13 21:26:17	daurnimator	C was designed for humans when assembly was the norm
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2018-12-13 21:39:33	lrvick	fair
2018-12-13 21:41:17	daurnimator	lrvick: you need to give zig a try
2018-12-13 22:05:38	ryan	i remember reading the "why zig" post and realizing that the only downside to using Rust was portability (reliance on LLVM as of right now) so unless I'm porting a C project I'm not sure why I'd want Zig over Rust
2018-12-13 22:20:02	lrvick	llvm can target just about anything you want to target these days
2018-12-13 22:20:12	lrvick	piles of microcontrollers, risc, whatever
2018-12-13 22:21:07	lrvick	see rust-embedded project
2018-12-13 22:21:55	daurnimator	ryan: rust pretends memory is infinite and will not be fixed.
2018-12-13 22:22:31	ryan	that's only the default allocator though, right? i'm not saying everyone should write their own allocator but i've been hearing of several different allocator implementations
2018-12-13 22:23:19	ryan	lrvick: i more meant targeting iOS and Android for app development. however, rust on wasm is supposedly going to be big
2018-12-13 22:24:57	lrvick	daurnimator: if that is the worst thing you can come up with about rust.
2018-12-13 22:25:01	lrvick	given all the other wins.
2018-12-13 22:25:19	lrvick	then I think Rust is still the thing to reach for, with some careful design considerations, until Zig etc matures
2018-12-13 22:25:51	daurnimator	lrvick: zig will mature as people use it.
2018-12-13 22:26:03	daurnimator	nothing can mature if no one uses it.....
2018-12-13 22:26:32	daurnimator	start using zig today where you can. it won't be suitable for everything yet. but you can't wait for it to be perfect
2018-12-13 22:30:00	ryan	i realize the irony in saying it but i'm not convinced on using a different language if i'm already invested in another language that works just as well
2018-12-13 22:32:11	daurnimator	ryan: it's not the allocator, it's the lack of an error path for indicating allocation failure
2018-12-13 22:33:06	gscott	I fucking love golang.  It's all I've been writing in for nearly 3 years now
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2018-12-13 22:34:06	ryan	meanwhile i've never hated a language more than i hate golang :p
2018-12-13 22:35:26	daurnimator	gscott: I don't like golang because it demands to be your runtime
2018-12-13 22:35:34	daurnimator	"doesn't play well with others"
2018-12-13 22:36:47	ryan	Go's solution for that is to "just" use separate processes
2018-12-13 22:37:50	daurnimator	didn't we learn that wasn't tenable back in 1999?
2018-12-13 22:38:31	ryan	we learned many things that we're apparently inventing again
2018-12-13 22:46:45	ryan	i should mention because i know that it'll probably come up but Rust has the same issue, only due to the fact that the ABI for Rust is not stable, so while dynamic libraries are eventually a goal, it's not likely to happen anytime soon.
2018-12-13 22:53:06	daurnimator	whereas zig uses the C ABI. it's been stable for decades.
2018-12-13 22:54:11	ryan	i'd rather cut out all possible C usage as possible, preferably
2018-12-13 22:54:48	ryan	like i said, Zig's useful if you have a mixed codebase, but using C in Rust essentially gets rid of the main reason I prefer Rust
2018-12-13 22:54:50	fwiw	what makes go demands to be our runtime?
2018-12-13 22:55:10	ryan	fwiw: you can't dynamically load Go into another program AIUI
2018-12-13 22:55:49	fwiw	ah, no ffi? from other lang to go?
2018-12-13 22:56:29	ryan	i think you can use C inside Go but not the other way around
2018-12-13 22:58:15	fwiw	isn't this true for all language with GC?
2018-12-13 22:58:56	ryan	think so, didn't realize Go had GC
2018-12-13 23:02:30	fwiw	back to rust vs zig,
2018-12-13 23:03:29	fwiw	I think Rust is C++ replacement
2018-12-13 23:03:53	tseng	no
2018-12-13 23:04:08	fwiw	and Zig is the C replc
2018-12-13 23:05:22	tseng	i don't have much faith in either of those replacing C++ or C
2018-12-13 23:05:27	fwiw	not in the sense that you should replace those, but
2018-12-13 23:05:38	fwiw	in the sense that what they designed for
2018-12-13 23:05:59	ryan	i don't think you'll end up replacing either anytime soon but i think that they're a good alternative
2018-12-13 23:06:00	fwiw	tseng, ^
2018-12-13 23:06:08	tseng	oh yeah, it's designed to replace C++ for mozilla's own uses, sure
2018-12-13 23:07:21	fwiw	zig error handling is quite novel
2018-12-13 23:07:48	fwiw	better than C and Go, imo
2018-12-13 23:14:14	tseng	i find haskell more interesting than Go or Rust
2018-12-13 23:15:37	tseng	it sort of reminds me of working with lisp
2018-12-13 23:16:33	fwiw	OCaml is pretty good too if you went the eager road
2018-12-13 23:16:52	tseng	the eager road?
2018-12-13 23:17:08	fwiw	non-lazy
2018-12-13 23:17:21	tseng	hm
2018-12-13 23:22:57	tseng	eh, not my cup of tea
2018-12-13 23:24:21	tseng	it does have some similarities to haskell 
2018-12-13 23:24:38	fwiw	both has it's ML root
2018-12-13 23:24:44	tseng	yeah, i see that
2018-12-13 23:30:11	tseng	i like how i can sort of use parens in haskell in a similar way to lisp
2018-12-13 23:30:23	tseng	but i don't appreciate the infix notation
2018-12-13 23:31:12	ryan	i thought infix was optional
2018-12-13 23:32:06	tseng	in haskell? it's what you're taught to use. you have to write a function if you want to use polish notation
2018-12-13 23:32:08	ryan	as soon as ghci installs i'll go test a thing
2018-12-13 23:32:21	tseng	or reverse polish notation
2018-12-13 23:32:35	tseng	in lisp, it's always polish notation
2018-12-13 23:32:44	ryan	oh, no, sorry
2018-12-13 23:32:46	ryan	(+) 1 2
2018-12-13 23:32:48	ryan	not (+ 1 2)
2018-12-13 23:33:01	tseng	oh, that does work
2018-12-13 23:33:05	ryan	yes
2018-12-13 23:33:13	ryan	most things that are infix are just functions
2018-12-13 23:33:22	tseng	((+) 1 2)
2018-12-13 23:33:31	ryan	plus you can infix functions like: 1 `add` 2
2018-12-13 23:33:41	tseng	thanks for showing me that, ryan 
2018-12-13 23:33:44	ryan	so really any kind of infix can be perfix'd
2018-12-13 23:33:46	ryan	np
2018-12-13 23:34:14	ryan	also Haskell has currying with that
2018-12-13 23:34:16	ryan	so have fun with that
2018-12-13 23:34:28	tseng	currying?
2018-12-13 23:34:46	fwiw	Haskell Curry
2018-12-13 23:34:59	ryan	so imagine the function `add 1 2`, as actually `add(1)(2)`
2018-12-13 23:35:04	fwiw	the mathematicians that invent lamda calculus
2018-12-13 23:35:11	fwiw	*lambda
2018-12-13 23:35:23	fwiw	:P
2018-12-13 23:35:29	tseng	ah, yeah.. i know jack about calculus :3
2018-12-13 23:35:39	ryan	so you can pass `add 1` to things as though it's a partial function
2018-12-13 23:35:48	 *	tseng stopped after algebra
2018-12-13 23:35:48	ryan	if you know Python, it's essentially like `functools.partial`
2018-12-13 23:35:59	ryan	although... most people that know what functools.partial is, know what currying is.
2018-12-13 23:36:48	fwiw	currying is also the reason why function signature on haskell is like that
2018-12-13 23:37:05	fwiw	add :: Integer -> Integer -> Integer
2018-12-13 23:38:20	fwiw	with pharentheses to clarify, add :: Integer -> (Integer -> Integer)
2018-12-13 23:39:13	ryan	surprisingly for as much as i know about Haskell, I've never written something practical with it
2018-12-13 23:47:07	tmpope	Has anyone? :trollface:
2018-12-13 23:48:11	fwiw	ryan, you can write your language parser in haskell, I suppose
2018-12-13 23:48:39	ryan	tmpope: :D
2018-12-13 23:48:42	ryan	i'm glad someone got my setup
2018-12-13 23:48:54	ryan	fwiw: FusionScript's parser will be in some kind of PEG
2018-12-13 23:49:06	ryan	even if it means having to bootstrap LuLPeg into the Syx VM
2018-12-13 23:49:17	ryan	just means that it'll be self-hosting faster
2018-12-13 23:54:16	tseng	tmpope: dunno about here, but i enjoy using it to hack on xmonad
2018-12-13 23:54:27	tseng	is that useful?
2018-12-13 23:55:28	fwiw	thy're joking ofc
2018-12-13 23:55:47	fwiw	inb4 relevant xkcd
2018-12-13 23:55:49	tmpope	If it has any side effects, it isn't purely functional, and thus not good haskell.
2018-12-13 23:56:04	tmpope	Solving a practical problem is a side effect
2018-12-13 23:56:55	ryan	but monads!!!
2018-12-13 23:57:01	ryan	still don't know what a monad is :D
2018-12-13 23:57:04	tseng	i'm not too worried about the purity of it
2018-12-13 23:57:13	tseng	but it does something useful for me, as a result
2018-12-13 23:57:16	fwiw	ryan, now you mention the m-words
2018-12-13 23:57:25	 *	ryan runs off :D
2018-12-13 23:58:12	fwiw	monad is just monoid in the category of endofunctors,
2018-12-13 23:58:46	fwiw	what's the problem?
2018-12-13 23:58:46	--	Notice(eval): I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.
2018-12-13 23:58:53	fwiw	:)
2018-12-13 23:58:58	fwiw	good job eval.
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2018-12-14 04:10:18	knight	I just did a semester in miranda, so I can say it has great things, not sure why monads are discussed so much in haskell tho
2018-12-14 04:10:36	knight	that came up much more in apl
2018-12-14 04:11:35	knight	what do I do if I forget my password or lose my keys?
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2018-12-14 05:14:47	ryan	knight: as of right now we don't have a recovery mechanism but if you drop an email address somewhere in $HOME we can use that to verify you
2018-12-14 05:16:00	knight	ryan: well see thats part of the issue, how would I do that if I couldnt log in?
2018-12-14 05:16:15	knight	if I didnt have backups i'd have had to make a new account
2018-12-14 05:16:25	ryan	yep
2018-12-14 05:16:36	ryan	but we don't want to force users into providing an email address or other mechanism
2018-12-14 05:16:40	knight	since I wiped my computer and changed distros
2018-12-14 05:16:56	knight	ryan: no, and thats great
2018-12-14 05:17:17	knight	recovery codes maybe?
2018-12-14 05:17:36	ryan	at this point you can basically have any mechanism put in your $HOME
2018-12-14 05:17:44	ryan	but we don't have anything standard yet
2018-12-14 05:19:24	knight	ryan: speaking of $HOME, i'd like to make a backup script for home directories, what do you think of using tar?
2018-12-14 05:20:06	ryan	dunno, what i've been doing recently instead of backups is managing stuff with Ansible playbooks, but that doesn't work out too well with non-root system.s
2018-12-14 05:21:15	knight	that makes sense for you guys, but I was comming from a users standpoint, to make a script to share with others, I know you guys already have a scheme
2018-12-14 05:21:42	ryan	well i more meant like my personal laptop :p
2018-12-14 05:22:02	ryan	i'm not sure how people do $HOME backups
2018-12-14 05:23:05	knight	also if your on suse please try my script https://github.com/ric-sc-gr/suse-fetch 
2018-12-14 05:23:06	--	Notice([]): k​night: Title "GitHub - ric-sc-gr/suse-fetch: Tiny system info for openSUSE" Shortened < https://is.gd/TAlsl0 >
2018-12-14 05:23:45	knight	ryan: I dont know either tbh, its a new thing for me, I've just been using deja-dup for the last year
2018-12-14 05:24:03	knight	personl computer wise
2018-12-14 05:25:38	knight	my /home is on a seperate partition so im considering doing a  weekly image of that, with incremental backups evry 2 days
2018-12-14 05:27:41	knight	the tricky bit would be if I made it for users here where would their backup location be
2018-12-14 05:28:16	knight	probably best for them to use the script from local
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2018-12-14 11:08:54	KellerKatze	daurnimator: In rust, allocation failure panics; if you choose panic=unwind, you can catch that.
2018-12-14 11:09:54	KellerKatze	ryan: Except that you can easily call to and from Rust through the C ABI (which is how you will interoperate with another language anyway...)
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2018-12-14 12:02:26	simonsays71	x
2018-12-14 12:02:28	simonsays71	q
2018-12-14 12:02:30	simonsays71	ls
2018-12-14 12:02:32	simonsays71	ls -al
2018-12-14 12:02:35	simonsays71	exit
2018-12-14 12:02:41	simonsays71	q
2018-12-14 12:02:43	simonsays71	curl https://hashbang.sh | gpg -o hashbang.sh
2018-12-14 12:02:43	--	Notice([]): s​imonsays71: Title "‎" 
2018-12-14 12:02:59	simonsays71	csccs
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2018-12-14 12:15:16	reynir	lol wat
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2018-12-14 12:38:18	polprog	lol
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2018-12-14 13:03:01	fwiw	lol wait?
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2018-12-14 17:18:13	knight	can we get hashbang cloaks? not sure if it makes sense
2018-12-14 17:18:58	ryan	there's no cloak setup on this server and I'm not sure how to do cloaks on Freenode. however, your ident will always match `!knight@*.hashbang.sh` on servers supporting ident daemons
2018-12-14 17:20:35	knight	ok, good to know
2018-12-14 17:22:13	knight	thoughts on a gpg puzzle of the week/month?
2018-12-14 17:38:21	fwiw	ryan, IIRC someone mentioned that to get community cloaks on freenode, the admin (or someone with similar role) should ask freenode staff
2018-12-14 17:49:21	knight	lol you guys dont like [t]csh huh
2018-12-14 17:50:48	ryan	i don't think we have anyone who uses it
2018-12-14 17:59:56	knight	i've been trying it out lately, it sucks but the interactive part is neat
2018-12-14 18:00:01	fwiw	ryan, because it's not installed by default
2018-12-14 18:00:08	fwiw	ryan, just like ed
2018-12-14 18:00:25	fwiw	!ed!
2018-12-14 18:00:25	knight	fwiw: what do you mean?
2018-12-14 18:00:31	ryan	fwiw: rustbot isn't here
2018-12-14 18:00:54	fwiw	knight, just joking about ed :)
2018-12-14 18:01:10	ryan	12:00 <rustbot> ED IS THE TRUE PATH TO NIRVANA! ED HAS BEEN THE CHOICE OF EDUCATED AND IGNORANT ALIKE FOR CENTURIES! ED WILL NOT CORRUPT YOUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS!! ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR! ED MAKES THE SUN SHINE AND THE BIRDS SI│ NG AND THE GRASS GREEN!!
2018-12-14 18:01:58	fwiw	thanks for educating us  :P
2018-12-14 18:06:41	knight	lmao
2018-12-14 18:11:07	dch	Based ed
2018-12-14 18:11:13	dch	Y'all should be using Sam
2018-12-14 18:11:29	dch	i
2018-12-14 18:11:31	dch	iuTe
2018-12-14 18:11:32	dch	o
2018-12-14 18:11:38	dch	SORRY! Wrong window!
2018-12-14 18:11:45	knight	no syntax highlight = rip
2018-12-14 18:12:04	dch	I edit in Acme, i've learned to live without
2018-12-14 18:13:05	knight	dch: you run plan9?
2018-12-14 18:13:12	dch	plan9port
2018-12-14 18:13:42	knight	cool 8-)
2018-12-14 18:13:54	dch	I use it for acme almost exclusively
2018-12-14 18:14:15	knight	dch: rc as well?
2018-12-14 18:14:19	dch	I used to use Rio but working with abduco for a plan 9-like experience wasn't very satisfying
2018-12-14 18:14:39	knight	rc looks rather nice
2018-12-14 18:16:08	knight	thats part of th reason im trying tcsh now since its more readable/neat
2018-12-14 18:16:31	knight	but rc looks much more useful than tcsh
2018-12-14 18:17:12	dch	I think rc only works properly from a plan 9 terminal window
2018-12-14 18:17:39	dch	tab completion is replaced with a (personally) much maligned Ctrl-F
2018-12-14 18:18:36	knight	yeah couldt find anything on rc for linux
2018-12-14 18:19:06	dch	https://9fans.github.io/plan9port/
2018-12-14 18:19:06	--	Notice([]): d​ch: Title "Plan 9 from User Space" Shortened < https://is.gd/lDwCQm >
2018-12-14 18:21:35	dch	4
2018-12-14 18:22:15	knight	the rc page is gone
2018-12-14 18:22:26	ryan	knight: rc can definitely be run on Linux, ask tse<tab><tab><tab> hm.
2018-12-14 18:22:56	dch	the plan9port distribution files contain rc.
2018-12-14 18:22:56	knight	hopinh someone fixes the parser for tcsh but it beeen a long time and its not fixed lol
2018-12-14 18:23:07	ryan	Well, we do have it installed on our own servers at least
2018-12-14 18:23:44	knight	the first line of the source code was pretty much, many have tried to make a complete parser like bourne shell, but failed
2018-12-14 18:23:56	knight	didnt read much of the code after that hehe
2018-12-14 18:24:30	knight	ryan: also tse who?
2018-12-14 18:25:04	ryan	tesng but they're not on
2018-12-14 18:25:37	knight	ah ok, well im off to do an exam, whish me luck!
2018-12-14 18:26:56	dch	good luck on whatever it may be
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2018-12-14 19:48:26	polprog	always give 100% unless its a blood test
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2018-12-15 10:52:25	aagat	viaken: been writing golang for almost a year now, its mostly painless experience
2018-12-15 12:57:13	viaken	Good :)
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2018-12-15 19:25:18	poppopret	@aagat what would you say it's best suited for? Or what did you write with it the most?
2018-12-15 19:25:42	poppopret	I'm super curious about it, but I'm not sure what it can do what other languages don't do for me right now
2018-12-15 19:38:29	aagat	poppopret: IMO it's mostly suitable for web and network stuff that needs "decent performance out of the box"
2018-12-15 19:38:52	libgrog	Hi
2018-12-15 19:40:15	poppopret	aagat: hm. Network could help me, but i don't need speed. I do mostly security stuff
2018-12-15 19:40:46	aagat	I wrote bunch of different stuff with it though, ranging from building _mostly_ atomic image based system updater to a reverse proxy to some HTTP/GRPC microservice
2018-12-15 19:41:48	aagat	right now I am writing some stuff to interact with k8s, which works well since k8s is all go
2018-12-15 19:42:02	aagat	poppopret: what kind of security stuff?
2018-12-15 19:42:06	 *	aagat is curious
2018-12-15 19:44:11	aagat	basically pick go if you want: 1) good performance 2) parallel/async stuff like network stuff 3) single binary deployments 4) type system as long as you can deal with writing some ugly code sometimes and dealing with not great dependency management
2018-12-15 19:44:24	aagat	libgrog: hello
2018-12-15 19:46:44	libgrog	I have quite a lot of lag on da1.hashbang.sh, I guess it's because of high ping, it's 200ms for me right now 
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2018-12-15 22:16:48	knight	libgrog: where is da ?
2018-12-15 22:38:46	knight	how to change my shell?
2018-12-15 22:38:50	knight	chsh fails
2018-12-15 23:04:45	daurnimator	KellerKatze: I thought panic=unwind had limitations on what was "safe"?
2018-12-15 23:47:44	KellerKatze	daurnimator: Not sure what you mean.  Unsafe code (as in, literally code that uses `unsafe {}` blocks) isn't guaranteed to be panic-safe, but that's in the same way it's not guaranteed to be memory-safe (i.e. if you use unsafe, it's on you to make sure you preserve language invariants)
2018-12-15 23:47:58	KellerKatze	non-unsafe code is automatically panic-safe
2018-12-16 00:45:11	tyler	hi
2018-12-16 01:13:06	dgrove	KellerKatze: are you back from traveling? 
2018-12-16 01:13:23	dgrove	Would love your eyes on the board@ PR if possible
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2018-12-16 05:20:36	viaken	knight: hashbangctl will change your shell. We keep user account data in LDAP so it's synchronized between servesr.
2018-12-16 05:42:57	knight	viaken: thanks
2018-12-16 05:43:44	knight	err that just crashed trying to run it
2018-12-16 05:44:54	viaken	Really?
2018-12-16 05:45:32	benharri	sudo hashbangctl
2018-12-16 05:45:49	knight	same error
2018-12-16 05:45:56	knight	did not evern auth
2018-12-16 05:46:05	knight	maybe I can try one of those cli pastes
2018-12-16 05:46:18	viaken	sudo shouldn't auth for normal users.
2018-12-16 05:46:28	viaken	Only for that program, anyway.
2018-12-16 05:46:29	benharri	it's configured not to for hashbangctl
2018-12-16 05:47:06	viaken	Bah. I think it's cert issues again.
2018-12-16 05:49:03	knight	any others outside of sprunge?
2018-12-16 05:49:12	knight	that paste doesnt seem to work for me
2018-12-16 05:49:47	knight	oh wait im dumb
2018-12-16 05:49:52	knight	got to redirect output
2018-12-16 05:51:47	benharri	cert issues on ldap.#!?
2018-12-16 05:52:54	knight	http://sprunge.us/X5qUTg
2018-12-16 05:52:54	--	Notice([]): k​night: Shortened < https://is.gd/cEA1zu >
2018-12-16 05:53:54	viaken	benharri: Yeah, seems like.
2018-12-16 05:54:16	knight	cat I do foo >> err 2>&1 and curl -F 'sprunge=<-' http://sprunge.us at the same time?
2018-12-16 05:54:33	benharri	viaken: oof
2018-12-16 05:54:38	benharri	let's see
2018-12-16 05:54:46	viaken	I'm pretty sure lrvick bandaged it a bit ago, but I guess it fell off.
2018-12-16 05:54:55	benharri	yeah...
2018-12-16 05:54:59	benharri	must've been 3 months ago?
2018-12-16 05:54:59	viaken	knight: You could do foo 2>&1 | curl ...
2018-12-16 05:55:12	viaken	I guess
2018-12-16 05:55:16	benharri	le certs are only valid for 3 montsh
2018-12-16 05:55:26	knight	hmm yeah, will keep that in mind next time
2018-12-16 06:20:41	lrvick	If someone else can rotate the certs this time, that would be rad.
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2018-12-16 10:16:38	knight	so can we host programs on here? like a paste bin? not sure what the rules are
2018-12-16 10:20:43	trinary	knight - I don't think anyone would object as long as it doesn't eat too much disk/memory (the rules don't explicitly forbid or allow it?)
2018-12-16 10:22:48	knight	trinary: ideally it'd be for #! members, but ill wait and see
2018-12-16 10:22:53	trinary	But the links are going to be rather long, and you may end up fighting (and losing that fight) over a port
2018-12-16 10:22:59	knight	looking to exercise my scripting skillss
2018-12-16 10:23:31	knight	trinary: why do you think they will be long?
2018-12-16 10:25:57	trinary	Well, at the minimum it'll be http://???.hashbang.sh:????/some_slug, one more if you want https
2018-12-16 10:26:07	trinary	But I guess that's fine if it's for pasting into IRC
2018-12-16 10:27:34	jesopo	hi
2018-12-16 10:28:29	knight	jesopo: hey
2018-12-16 10:28:54	knight	trinary: yeah ill have to give it some more thought
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2018-12-16 14:29:04	minerobber[team]	I mean, I run a public instance of an API I wrote for a webcomic I like to read on ny1
2018-12-16 14:29:18	minerobber[team]	http://ny1.hashbang.sh:1046/
2018-12-16 14:29:18	--	Notice([]): m​inerobber[team]: Shortened < https://is.gd/Ugmjoe >
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2018-12-16 14:31:09	minerobber[team]	...there we go
2018-12-16 14:31:09	minerobber[team]	:P
2018-12-16 18:48:32	dch	is there a donate link
2018-12-16 19:02:05	ryan	&donate
2018-12-16 19:02:07	ryan	PayPal: http://goo.gl/aSQWy0 | Google Wallet: donate@hashbang.sh | Bitcoin: 1DtTvCLiUMhs21QcETQzLyiqxoopUjqBSU | Patreon: https://goo.gl/uh1XRZ
2018-12-16 19:02:09	ryan	dch: 
2018-12-16 19:02:10	--	Notice([]): r​yan: Title "Donate" 
2018-12-16 19:02:11	--	Notice([]): r​yan: Title "Hashbang | Patreon" 
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2018-12-16 21:23:59	knight	how does zsh get the error colored for prompt? a function or a builtin?
2018-12-16 21:28:38	polprog	echo $?
2018-12-16 21:29:04	daurnimator	KellerKatze: if your unwinding code requires memory allocations (which you can never know; and last time was true for even the standard library) then you don't know what state you're in at after panic.
2018-12-16 21:29:09	polprog	that variable keeps the exit code of the last command, knight 
2018-12-16 21:42:35	knight	polprog: ok, im just thinking that you would make your pompt a function then?
2018-12-16 21:59:13	polprog	knight: open up a terminal
2018-12-16 21:59:19	polprog	OLDPROMPT=$PS1
2018-12-16 21:59:28	polprog	PS1='$( if [ $? -ne 0 ]; then echo "error>"; else echo "ok>"; fi)'
2018-12-16 21:59:50	polprog	this makes your prompt either error> or ok> basing on the exit code of last command
2018-12-16 21:59:57	polprog	test it with `true` and `false`
2018-12-16 21:59:59	polprog	;)
2018-12-16 22:00:08	knight	polprog: thanks so much
2018-12-16 22:00:09	polprog	then you just add escape codes for color
2018-12-16 22:00:13	polprog	also
2018-12-16 22:00:29	polprog	PS1=$OLDPROMPT when you want the old one back
2018-12-16 22:00:47	knight	polprog: but I thought zsh could use %? for error in the prompt
2018-12-16 22:01:04	polprog	i dont use zsh, i suppose its similar though
2018-12-16 22:01:52	polprog	https://www.zsh.org/mla/users/2007/msg00554.html
2018-12-16 22:01:54	--	Notice([]): p​olprog: Title "check exit code" Shortened < https://is.gd/QGGINt >
2018-12-16 22:08:44	knight	polprog: $? and %? are different, zsh also has $status iirc
2018-12-16 22:15:14	polprog	no idea, i use bash ever since k got into linux (and not only linux ;) )
2018-12-16 22:15:31	knight	ok, thanks for the help
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2018-12-16 23:25:19	KellerKatze	daurnimator: What do you mean by “if your unwinding code requires memory allocations” ?  The implementation of unwind in the compiler? (It doesn't need to allocate)
2018-12-16 23:26:08	daurnimator	KellerKatze: AFAIK, unwinding in rust may result in function calls that need resources
2018-12-16 23:29:36	KellerKatze	Yes, when calling destructors; those may fail in ways that result in a second panic, but “I wrote code that raised an exception while handling an exception” is not particularly unique to rust, nor is it particularly desirable to forbid (because it either mains that errors cause ressource leakages, or that destructors are forbidden from using ressources that may run out)
2018-12-16 23:43:58	daurnimator	KellerKatze: I would usually like the invariant: "destructors that allocate resources must not be on the unwind path of functions that can panic on resource allocation"
2018-12-17 05:20:02	gnarlsmarley	Hey guys, new here. I'm a friend and former member of Familab. Just made it out to the SF Bay area, have been trying to get deeper into my linux/networking/security and development knowledge for sometime and here for that. Have been meeting to make a presence here for some time. 
2018-12-17 05:24:52	lrvick	Ohai.
2018-12-17 05:25:25	lrvick	Try to build https://github.com/hashbang/shell-server built/running locally and ssh to it.
2018-12-17 05:25:25	--	Notice([]): l​rvick: Title "GitHub - hashbang/shell-server: #! shell server base images, ready to boot and allow user logins." Shortened < https://is.gd/czBBwV >
2018-12-17 05:25:44	lrvick	and understand how this build system works. It is better than what most companies have, and will give you great talking points in an interview :)
2018-12-17 05:26:07	lrvick	Keep asking questions until you understand things.
2018-12-17 05:26:33	lrvick	Smart people ask dumb questions. Stupid people ask no questions for fear of looking stupid. :D
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2018-12-17 06:08:14	knight	whats the terminology for zsh ?.. so I can look it up?
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2018-12-17 06:11:57	knight	oh just ternary test
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2018-12-17 10:58:38	simonsays71	ls
2018-12-17 10:58:42	simonsays71	quit
2018-12-17 10:58:43	simonsays71	exit
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2018-12-17 11:18:55	reynir	irc is the worst shell ever
2018-12-17 11:25:02	Andrio	sh: 1: logout: not found
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2018-12-17 15:15:41	viaken	lol
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2018-12-17 15:39:02	ryan	Tempted to try /exec -sh -o logout
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2018-12-17 16:02:04	reynir	lemme try that
2018-12-17 16:02:11	reynir	sh: 1: logout: not found
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2018-12-17 17:37:41	polprog	an irc bot that is a hidden shell relay
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2018-12-17 19:35:13	marlyn	hehehe
2018-12-17 19:55:26	gnarlsmarley	So, have been in build proccess for some time. Has been hung for 1+ hour at docker: TASK [Import administrator PGP keys from keyserver] *****
2018-12-17 19:56:00	gnarlsmarley	Is it expected for this step to take long?
2018-12-17 19:58:55	benharri	i'm actually trying to run the docker build too and it's hung there too
2018-12-17 20:05:09	aagat	sounds like keyserver isn't responding but shouldn't it time out
2018-12-17 20:05:47	 *	aagat looks at playbook
2018-12-17 20:09:15	aagat	so its stuck here: https://github.com/hashbang/shell-server/blob/master/ansible/tasks/hashbang/main.yml#L17
2018-12-17 20:09:16	--	Notice([]): a​agat: Title "shell-server/main.yml at master · hashbang/shell-server · GitHub" Shortened < https://is.gd/glj4ip >
2018-12-17 20:12:59	aagat	so the keyserver is down/not responding and it looks like there is no exit condition for failure
2018-12-17 20:14:48	reynir	FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION
2018-12-17 20:15:25	benharri	i'll have a look at it tonight
2018-12-17 20:28:04	aagat	reynir: https://github.com/auchenberg/volkswagen
2018-12-17 20:28:05	--	Notice([]): a​agat: Title "GitHub - auchenberg/volkswagen: Volkswagen detects when your tests are being run in a CI server, and makes them pass." Shortened < https://is.gd/Rfc4lH >
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2018-12-17 20:56:53	mayli	𝒻𝒶𝓃𝒸𝓎 
2018-12-17 20:57:39	reynir	aagat: lol
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2018-12-18 01:30:06	mayli	ahhh, i just figured that #! server doesn't have wildcard domain names
2018-12-18 01:31:00	mayli	that make the `grep hash /etc/nginx/sites-enabled/hashbang-http` absolute zero sense
2018-12-18 01:31:47	mayli	also ryan the cert of https://hashbang.sh/ expired Expires on: Dec 15, 2018
2018-12-18 01:32:22	ryan	We're aware they're out of date
2018-12-18 01:32:59	mayli	:/
2018-12-18 01:33:02	ryan	Double overtime at work now though so I can't fix it right now
2018-12-18 01:33:33	mayli	even my potato server can auto renew it, why :/
2018-12-18 01:34:34	ryan	Blame lrvick and his Kubernetes fetish
2018-12-18 01:36:36	lrvick	this has nothing to do with kubernetes
2018-12-18 01:36:50	lrvick	this has to do with no one sshing to the server to run cert.sh
2018-12-18 01:36:55	lrvick	we are not running anything in kubernetes
2018-12-18 01:37:48	ryan	If we didn't have to use kubernetes then I'd be more willing to put effort into fixing our disaster of a setup but as of right now I'm not touching either the old setup or the new one
2018-12-18 01:38:06	ryan	All the automation in the world is useless if we still need to renew certs
2018-12-18 01:39:15	lrvick	well moving to kubernetes solves this problem for us for free
2018-12-18 01:39:25	lrvick	cert-manager runs as a sidecar for nginx-ingress
2018-12-18 01:39:33	lrvick	and automatically registers and hooks up certs for all backends.
2018-12-18 01:39:34	mayli	yey, my patch is working: curl -H 'Host: mayli.sf1.hashbang.sh' http://sf1.hashbang.sh/uptime.txt
2018-12-18 01:39:34	--	Notice([]): m​ayli: Title "502 Bad Gateway" Shortened < https://is.gd/5dHsMp >
2018-12-18 01:40:14	mayli	lrvick: sounds like "very complex"
2018-12-18 01:40:27	lrvick	Explaining how ls or cd works, is very complex
2018-12-18 01:40:30	lrvick	using them, is not
2018-12-18 01:40:40	ryan	And yet we're still broken
2018-12-18 01:40:56	lrvick	Yep. because no one has sshed to the machine to run cert.sh
2018-12-18 01:41:02	mayli	so, how complex is to add wildcard domain resolution to #! shell servers?
2018-12-18 01:41:07	ryan	So if using them isn't complex then why can't you take a weekend and fix this fuck up of a setup
2018-12-18 01:41:26	lrvick	mayli: a PR and a terraform apply. easy.
2018-12-18 01:41:39	mayli	let me find the repo
2018-12-18 01:41:53	lrvick	ryan: because then, just like the current setup, i own it forever. I am willing to mentor anyone willing to step up and learn
2018-12-18 01:41:59	lrvick	but otherwise this is just more bus factor on me.
2018-12-18 01:42:36	ryan	Then maybe you shouldn't have picked the technology that only you know how to use
2018-12-18 01:43:18	lrvick	I use industry standard technologies, and they are stupidly simple to use.
2018-12-18 01:43:22	lrvick	I learned them in 15 mins
2018-12-18 01:43:31	lrvick	just needs someone to spend 15 mins to learn
2018-12-18 01:43:31	ryan	If your first setup is now so unbelievably broken why would we let you mentor us about how to use a new technology?
2018-12-18 01:43:44	mayli	this is the right spot right? https://github.com/hashbang/admin-tools/blob/11db5c064244140c06dc7ab506ef7a8081584359/terraform/modules/r53/main.tf#L113
2018-12-18 01:43:45	--	Notice([]): m​ayli: Title "admin-tools/main.tf at 11db5c064244140c06dc7ab506ef7a8081584359 · hashbang/admin-tools · GitHub" Shortened < https://is.gd/MdFNOt >
2018-12-18 01:44:07	lrvick	ryan: I literally set up a stupidly simple stopgap system that I literallly don't know how to make easier
2018-12-18 01:44:13	lrvick	but people don't know how to ssh and run one command.
2018-12-18 01:44:20	lrvick	I don't know how to simplify that further
2018-12-18 01:44:24	lrvick	I even documented it for you
2018-12-18 01:44:46	lrvick	I only setup said stopgap system to get us up and running and buy more time for someone willing to work with me to do it right
2018-12-18 01:45:05	lrvick	instead of expecting me to do it all myself... I would rather mentor someone on how to do things right.
2018-12-18 01:45:19	lrvick	how we have it now, is minimal but maintainable.
2018-12-18 01:46:36	lrvick	For anyone that has is familiar with docker and systemd, it will be immediately obvious how everything is setup and how to manage it from 2 shell commands, but I did also write a doc as well.
2018-12-18 01:46:50	ryan	you completely missed my point, the entirety of where we are now is because of a stupid hacked up CoreOS "industry standard" setup, so why should we trust you on a new one?
2018-12-18 01:47:36	lrvick	if you want to fully judge me by what I managed to set up from scratch in 1 hour to keep us online because no one else wanted to do it
2018-12-18 01:47:45	lrvick	you can
2018-12-18 01:47:47	lrvick	but I actually do this stuff for a living, and know how to do it right.
2018-12-18 01:47:55	lrvick	but I would like to do that -with- someone so someone else knows how it all works
2018-12-18 01:48:20	ryan	i'm judging you based on our ENTIRE infrastructure.
2018-12-18 01:48:24	ryan	it's ALL awful.
2018-12-18 01:48:29	lrvick	also literally no problem we have right now has anything at all to do with coreos
2018-12-18 01:48:49	ryan	really? so why do we constantly have deployment issues with Python on the servers?
2018-12-18 01:48:51	lrvick	first of all our shell servers, I did do correctly, and I stand by that setup
2018-12-18 01:48:54	ryan	is it our fault for using Ansible on them?
2018-12-18 01:49:00	ryan	you didn't even do that correctly!
2018-12-18 01:49:06	ryan	i had to fix half the tasks.
2018-12-18 01:49:26	lrvick	the overall structure of it, I stand by. i built the whole framework. the individual tasks will need iteration forever
2018-12-18 01:49:35	lrvick	but I gave you a path to work on it and understand it, did I not?
2018-12-18 01:49:47	ryan	your self-update system apparently managed to install a PPA, on a Debian system.
2018-12-18 01:50:22	lrvick	Yes. PPAs are supported on debian systems.
2018-12-18 01:50:29	lrvick	there are official docs for "how to use x ppa on debian"
2018-12-18 01:50:35	lrvick	which I followed
2018-12-18 01:50:54	ryan	no they're not you end up with incompatibilties between versions and it fucked up Ansible
2018-12-18 01:51:34	lrvick	okay, but I built a framework that allows you to see everything, recreate it, test it locally, and adjust.
2018-12-18 01:51:45	lrvick	if you want to build a better framework, go for it.
2018-12-18 01:52:06	lrvick	I think it is substantally better than the etckeeper setup we had
2018-12-18 01:52:18	ryan	doesn't mean it works
2018-12-18 01:52:29	lrvick	it was working when I deployed it.
2018-12-18 01:52:34	ryan	moving from broken platform to broken platform is useless
2018-12-18 01:52:43	lrvick	packages change and it does take some level of maint
2018-12-18 01:52:45	ryan	and then it broke immediately after probably because PPAs track Ubuntu packages rather than Debian
2018-12-18 01:52:56	lrvick	if you are expecting me to maintain everything 100% by myself that is not really reasonable.
2018-12-18 01:53:12	lrvick	if you want to judge the entire setup by one package choice, you can.
2018-12-18 01:53:13	ryan	you could have just not used a PPA and we could have relied on Debian
2018-12-18 01:53:17	--	Notice(github): [admin-tools] mayli opened pull request #148: domain: add wildcard cname records for shell servers (master...wildcard) https://git.io/fpx11
2018-12-18 01:53:42	lrvick	ryan: At the time there was not a new enough ansible available for some of the features we were using. now there is.
2018-12-18 01:54:33	lrvick	Anyway. Ansible makes sense for -mutable- systems like shell server. It is not a sane choice for -immutable- stateless servers like our services should be.
2018-12-18 01:54:49	lrvick	ansible was never a sane choice for coreos, and if you recall I didn't even do that
2018-12-18 01:54:55	lrvick	you guys tacked that on, at my protest
2018-12-18 01:54:59	lrvick	then blamed me when it broke
2018-12-18 01:55:02	lrvick	just saying.
2018-12-18 01:55:25	ryan	i wasn't even here because i was fed up with what was already in place
2018-12-18 01:56:55	lrvick	Also consider: the way I used to build things 5 years ago, is not how I would do it today with a lot more hindsight and knowledge.
2018-12-18 01:57:20	mayli	yep
2018-12-18 01:57:36	mayli	let's redo/design everything from scratch!
2018-12-18 01:57:39	lrvick	but I do stand by what we have being stupidly easy to maintain. you can setup a new ldap server in 20 mins if you read the doc I wrote specifically for you the last time this came up.
2018-12-18 01:58:04	lrvick	and I would like someone other than me to read it, instead of complaining about using ansible on coreos, which was never needed or sensible.
2018-12-18 01:58:08	lrvick	:-P
2018-12-18 01:58:09	mayli	lrvick: i am expecting an `docker run` and ldap uip
2018-12-18 01:58:28	lrvick	I even wrote a systemd unit that wraps docker
2018-12-18 01:58:36	lrvick	so you literally just need to be able to run systemd commands.
2018-12-18 01:59:13	lrvick	https://github.com/hashbang/docker-slapd
2018-12-18 01:59:14	--	Notice([]): l​rvick: Title "GitHub - hashbang/docker-slapd: Containerized LDAP server" Shortened < https://is.gd/A4guQ7 >
2018-12-18 01:59:15	lrvick	see readme
2018-12-18 01:59:23	lrvick	all other services atm are set up very similarly
2018-12-18 01:59:36	lrvick	but that is the one I most recently touched as the model "KISS" service setup
2018-12-18 01:59:54	lrvick	I really don't understand how to make that easier, or why it makes me a terrible person
2018-12-18 02:00:12	lrvick	but it is what I did in 1-2 hours when we were fully down because no one else wanted to do anything about it.
2018-12-18 02:00:18	lrvick	so I stand by it being the right call at the time.
2018-12-18 02:01:03	lrvick	I would just like someone else to fix certs this time, so I am not the only admin that maintains everything. That is all I ask. I'll teach anyone anything.
2018-12-18 02:01:36	lrvick	then from there, i can also teach the path to automation and portability.
2018-12-18 02:02:24	ryan	why didn't certs get automated?
2018-12-18 02:02:28	ryan	why can't we automate certs?
2018-12-18 02:03:11	lrvick	because I had 2 hours, so I just left a cert.sh script in place for that, hoping someone would be willing to help me migrate to automated k8s cert management in the next 3 months. that didn't happen.
2018-12-18 02:03:15	lrvick	so time to re-run cert.sh
2018-12-18 02:03:39	lrvick	someone -could- put in the time to make a systemd unit automation system around cert.sh... but that would take hours, and if you have that kind of time, help migrate to k8s.
2018-12-18 02:04:06	ryan	but... it's just OnCalendar=weekly
2018-12-18 02:04:16	lrvick	it is more complex than that
2018-12-18 02:04:19	ryan	why?
2018-12-18 02:04:23	ryan	actually
2018-12-18 02:04:25	ryan	i'm at my desk anyways
2018-12-18 02:04:46	lrvick	it needs to listen on port 80, which means you have to take down the service to get a cert on www. (others are no problem)
2018-12-18 02:04:53	lrvick	which means now you need an nginx ingress proxy
2018-12-18 02:05:03	lrvick	that can route requests to the cert container or the main app container depending
2018-12-18 02:05:18	lrvick	then you write all that nginx config by hand... and a job to run the container at a set interval
2018-12-18 02:05:21	ryan	so all we need to do is, on hashbang.sh, disable the webserver during renewal
2018-12-18 02:05:23	mayli	i could setup a docker to get certs under 1min, however i have totally no idea how to get that work with the cert.sh
2018-12-18 02:05:27	lrvick	but then you are re-inventing the wheel
2018-12-18 02:05:38	lrvick	as k8s already has solid solutions for all this that are hands off
2018-12-18 02:05:53	lrvick	mayli: cert.sh is literally just  
2018-12-18 02:05:56	ryan	i could get it done faster without k8s though
2018-12-18 02:06:01	ryan	so i don't know why i'd want it
2018-12-18 02:06:15	ryan	why can't we have at least a *working* solution first?
2018-12-18 02:06:25	mayli	yep, i could get it done fast as well without k8s
2018-12-18 02:06:55	lrvick	great. No one is stopping either of you. I am not a fan of half-measures and am willing to put in effort for the long term.
2018-12-18 02:06:55	ryan	especially for irc, i don't know why we couldn't have had a 10 line timer set up.
2018-12-18 02:07:11	lrvick	running cert.sh once every 3 months for now is not that much effort.
2018-12-18 02:07:27	mayli	lrvick: can you slap that to crontab?
2018-12-18 02:07:50	lrvick	ryan: you can literally put cert.sh in a systemd timer unit if you want in 10 mins if that makes you happy
2018-12-18 02:08:07	lrvick	it is literally a docker one liner
2018-12-18 02:08:12	ryan	mayli: probably not, i doubt coreos has it
2018-12-18 02:08:24	lrvick	coreos has systemd timer units
2018-12-18 02:08:28	lrvick	cron is deprecated
2018-12-18 02:08:44	ryan	AFAICT you can't have both the command and a timer in the same file
2018-12-18 02:08:47	lrvick	coreos forces you to use systemd properly, because that is all there is.
2018-12-18 02:09:25	lrvick	you can also put the systemd units in a coreos ignition config, and then if you delete the instance a new one will take its place and boot up with the right units and automagically just work
2018-12-18 02:09:43	lrvick	but once again, that time is better spent shipping services to the k8s stack I already spun up and am paying for
2018-12-18 02:09:46	lrvick	which is currently empty
2018-12-18 02:10:35	lrvick	once you have an application defined as a helm chart you literally just do "helm install slapd" and magically ldap.hashbang.sh will be setup and have TLS and letsencrypt.
2018-12-18 02:10:54	lrvick	that is how things work for all new services at $JOB
2018-12-18 02:11:10	lrvick	the reason we want helm charts, is then anyone can help, even those that don't have root.
2018-12-18 02:11:40	ryan	i don't have time to learn kubernetes and i already know how to use systemd & cert.sh
2018-12-18 02:11:43	ryan	so i'm going to use cert.sh
2018-12-18 02:12:31	lrvick	cool. you have my full support. Please update the README.md for any projects you setup, so we have exact steps to recreate that instance from scratch.
2018-12-18 02:12:38	lrvick	use docker-slapd as a reference
2018-12-18 02:12:47	lrvick	or in fact, start with docker-slapd since it is the easiest use case
2018-12-18 02:13:22	ryan	the first one i prioritized, unrealircd, has *no* documentation for certs... or in general
2018-12-18 02:14:11	lrvick	we had a perma-cert installed, but since they stopped renewing it I frantically used the standard well documented letsencrypt one liner to get a new cert
2018-12-18 02:14:25	lrvick	the old cert method was never documented either, because generating certs is a pretty well understood thing
2018-12-18 02:14:35	lrvick	but at your request I documented exact steps for docker-slapd
2018-12-18 02:14:43	lrvick	you can almost 1/1 copy paste that for all other services
2018-12-18 02:15:15	ryan	i more meant no documentation at all, but alright.
2018-12-18 02:16:36	lrvick	I am the first one to ever document anything regarding certs for #!.
2018-12-18 02:16:50	lrvick	therefore I am the person that can be blamed the least for that current situation :-P
2018-12-18 02:17:39	lrvick	anyway, feel free to improve ldap and update the readme as a reference
2018-12-18 02:19:23	ryan	i'm improving IRC because that's probably the more essential one
2018-12-18 02:19:29	ryan	given that if LDAP is down at least users can talk to us
2018-12-18 02:22:17	lrvick	IRC should be pretty much identical since it does not listen on port 80
2018-12-18 02:22:48	lrvick	all services except www can just straight up use a timer unit to drop off the certs
2018-12-18 02:23:05	ryan	bit of an issue, seems that cert.sh is corrupt on IRC?
2018-12-18 02:23:08	lrvick	-but- you will need to configure the application to use the cert files at the paths that cert.sh drops them off
2018-12-18 02:23:19	lrvick	it is literally just the one liner in docker-slapd readme
2018-12-18 02:23:25	lrvick	pasted to a file called cert.sh
2018-12-18 02:23:25	ryan	like, the .conf file internal to the volume looks corrupt
2018-12-18 02:23:35	ryan	how do i cat files in a volume?
2018-12-18 02:24:18	lrvick	docker exec -it container-volume-is-mounted-to bash
2018-12-18 02:24:21	lrvick	> cat somefile
2018-12-18 02:24:52	lrvick	K8s won't make any sense until working with containers and volumes makes sense.... so honestly this is probably a good warmup.
2018-12-18 02:26:44	ryan	i'm not dense, i was just wondering if i could do it without a live container
2018-12-18 02:26:57	ryan	CertStorageError: target /etc/letsencrypt/archive/irc.hashbang.sh/cert2.pem of symlink /etc/letsencrypt/live/irc.hashbang.sh/cert.pem does not exist
2018-12-18 02:26:58	--	Notice([]): r​yan: Shortened < https://is.gd/CRXawM >
2018-12-18 02:26:58	--	Notice([]): r​yan: Shortened < https://is.gd/h0NWCm >
2018-12-18 02:26:59	ryan	*yay*
2018-12-18 02:27:00	lrvick	sure
2018-12-18 02:27:09	ryan	just run cert.sh... :I
2018-12-18 02:28:00	lrvick	cert.sh gets you cert files. you can then put them in the paths they need to go. It is -way- easier than they way we used to do it with globalsign
2018-12-18 02:28:08	ryan	except it just broke
2018-12-18 02:28:18	ryan	looks like some link error?
2018-12-18 02:28:19	lrvick	okay. what error?
2018-12-18 02:29:16	ryan	the one i just posted?
2018-12-18 02:29:30	lrvick	we are not pinning to a set version of letsencrypt so it looks like they changed things in that container a bit.
2018-12-18 02:29:40	lrvick	but you can just get a new cert from scratch at this point
2018-12-18 02:29:47	ryan	then we need to nuke & pave each time?
2018-12-18 02:30:03	ryan	i wouldn't think that it would be this incompatible.
2018-12-18 02:30:05	lrvick	or pin the docker container version, which is probably a better practice
2018-12-18 02:30:24	ryan	especially given certbot at least is reliant enough that certbot-auto can self-update without backwards incompatibiltiies
2018-12-18 02:31:41	ryan	it would've failed yesterday though, wouldn't it?
2018-12-18 02:31:50	ryan	dgrove just renewed it and that's valid
2018-12-18 02:32:18	lrvick	oh. in that case he probably just renamed a file in place or something and broke the symlink
2018-12-18 02:32:21	lrvick	easy to do.
2018-12-18 02:32:39	lrvick	I try not to modify the output state of letsencrypt at all, and just copy files out of that to where they need to go
2018-12-18 02:33:15	ryan	then i'll need to nuke&pave certs to renew in the future
2018-12-18 02:33:29	ryan	or just wait 3 months and hope someone manages to afford the time to get kubernetes running, just like last time
2018-12-18 02:33:33	ryan	except this time the failure will be bigger
2018-12-18 02:34:26	lrvick	I mean you can literally just rm -rf letsencrypt folder and re-run
2018-12-18 02:34:43	lrvick	then copy files out of letsencrypt folder to unrealircd folder and fix permissions
2018-12-18 02:34:51	lrvick	since the irc server does not use volumes properly
2018-12-18 02:34:58	lrvick	or you can migrate it to proper volumes if your eally want to
2018-12-18 02:35:14	lrvick	but kind of a waste as dgrove is pretty far along porting irc to k8s
2018-12-18 02:35:19	lrvick	as one of our pilot services
2018-12-18 02:36:12	ryan	then let's hope it's done by then because i should be going back to monitoring work stuff soon
2018-12-18 02:37:36	dgrove	Did I screw something up? 
2018-12-18 02:38:17	lrvick	ryan: so you know, you can literally just go to any machine, run that one liner, get a cert. then drop it off in the path an application expects it.
2018-12-18 02:38:28	lrvick	Honestly this is not some magic coreos thing.
2018-12-18 02:38:36	lrvick	I think you guys sometimes assume this stuff is more complicated than it is
2018-12-18 02:38:41	ryan	dgrove: irc.hashbang.sh seems to have a mutated cert state and can't be renewed
2018-12-18 02:39:00	ryan	lrvick: i'm not saying it is, but it is broken, and I'm supposed to be working, so I don't have the time to fix it
2018-12-18 02:39:13	dgrove	I renewed last night
2018-12-18 02:39:20	dgrove	But I did mv instead of cp
2018-12-18 02:39:26	dgrove	Which was probably dumb of me
2018-12-18 02:39:56	lrvick	that would do it
2018-12-18 02:40:11	dgrove	You and nuke and pave the folder if it's still borked
2018-12-18 02:40:17	dgrove	Yeah, it was late. My bad... 
2018-12-18 02:40:28	lrvick	dgrove: you are totally cool. you got it working
2018-12-18 02:40:36	lrvick	and I for one don't blame people for stopgaps when shit is broken
2018-12-18 02:40:43	lrvick	trivial to correct next time
2018-12-18 02:41:05	dgrove	ryan: just cp the files back and rename and it should be fixed 
2018-12-18 02:41:53	lrvick	sure. or just mv letsencrypt to letsencrypt.old and automate the one liner, or help with the helm porting. lots of options.
2018-12-18 02:42:21	lrvick	any work we do on the current coreos machines will be wasted work. the new k8s coreos machines are already up.
2018-12-18 02:42:48	lrvick	and unlike these coreos machines where you can ssh to the host and fuck around trying to maintain this like an immutable system and getting frustrated, the new systems don't let you do that.
2018-12-18 02:42:58	ryan	maintenance of currently working services isn't "wasted work"
2018-12-18 02:43:07	lrvick	you get an API for shipping containers. Easy.
2018-12-18 02:43:08	ryan	or would you like to tell the community that their presence is a waste?
2018-12-18 02:43:58	ryan	i know for a fact if i told my boss that maintaining the old responder while i'm working on the new one, is a waste, he'd call me dumb and tell me to work on it or look elsewhere for a job
2018-12-18 02:44:26	ryan	maybe i'm just trying to draw parallels between this and a company that actually cares for it's users in the transition period.
2018-12-18 02:44:56	lrvick	ryan: running a few commands once or twice to install certs once or twice more, vs spending hours fucking around with the details of automating it... -or- spend those hours on a long term sustainable solution.
2018-12-18 02:45:07	lrvick	as it is we can't even upgrade the kernels etc on the current setup.
2018-12-18 02:45:24	lrvick	so imo I treat it as frozen, and will do the minimum amount of work to keep it running
2018-12-18 02:45:32	lrvick	and support efforts for something maintainable.
2018-12-18 02:45:44	ryan	i don't mean to target out dgrove on this but clearly the manual approach has it's flaws
2018-12-18 02:46:14	lrvick	does it? you literally just run the one liner, anywhere at all. hell don't even use a volume
2018-12-18 02:46:21	lrvick	drop off the files, reload service, done.
2018-12-18 02:46:31	lrvick	it is actually less manual than the way we used to do it with globalsign
2018-12-18 02:46:36	ryan	right because when i ran it just now it totally didn't error to a point where i have to nuke & pave
2018-12-18 02:46:51	dgrove	Ryan is right lrvick
2018-12-18 02:46:56	lrvick	sure, so nuke and pave. Why is that a problem?
2018-12-18 02:47:07	lrvick	again, this is a stopgap. these machines are -not- maintainable.
2018-12-18 02:47:11	dgrove	It was hacky and I was just flying by the seat of my pants
2018-12-18 02:47:22	ryan	because it's obviously not "just" one command at that point
2018-12-18 02:47:25	dgrove	I'm not saying I don't agree about the machines
2018-12-18 02:47:28	lrvick	you had to run 2 commands instead of one.
2018-12-18 02:47:37	lrvick	you have typed more text about that here, than the line it would take to type.
2018-12-18 02:47:42	dgrove	I am saying I agree that the yolo stop gap is bad
2018-12-18 02:47:55	lrvick	lets imagine you automated cert.sh for a second
2018-12-18 02:47:58	lrvick	and it all worked perfect
2018-12-18 02:48:04	lrvick	how do you upgrade the kernel? 
2018-12-18 02:48:14	lrvick	or the whole base OS?
2018-12-18 02:48:20	lrvick	or ircd itself?
2018-12-18 02:48:25	ryan	would it matter? at least then we could dedicate time to working on other things without worrying about the current setup
2018-12-18 02:48:36	lrvick	there is no future for the current solution. It is not maintainable in any reasonable way
2018-12-18 02:48:39	ryan	I'm not saying that the Kubernetes end goal isn't a bad idea
2018-12-18 02:49:02	lrvick	so it is not worth doing any more than the minimal amount of commands to keep certs running for 3 months at a time, while we invest time in something maintainable.
2018-12-18 02:49:16	lrvick	ryan: you literally implied it was a bad idea twice earlier, so I assumed that context.
2018-12-18 02:49:48	ryan	it was a bad idea to say that I should help with it, yes, because I have no clue what I'm doing and clearly everyone here is bad at reviewing stuff based on how much junk gets put up on GitHub
2018-12-18 02:51:09	lrvick	ryan: okay. having limited time is fine. I do find it a bit harsh to berate those that have been putting in a lot of effort to make things better. It is kind of like someone taking the time to clean the whole place and you coming along and saying "you fucker, you missed a spot. I would not of missed that spot... but I have better things to do"
2018-12-18 02:51:20	lrvick	hopefully you see how that is frustrating
2018-12-18 02:51:41	ryan	except you specifically said you're not doing anything, you're just going to mentor those who have the time to do so
2018-12-18 02:51:46	ryan	almost no one here has time
2018-12-18 02:51:51	ryan	to learn something new, at least
2018-12-18 02:52:00	ryan	if you get it maintainable, we can learn from there
2018-12-18 02:52:14	ryan	but you can't build a new project based on just the work of the equivalent of junior developers
2018-12-18 02:52:22	lrvick	there are two paths.
2018-12-18 02:52:32	ryan	or you end up with another one of our current setup - an unmaintainable disaster designed for the wrong target system
2018-12-18 02:52:52	lrvick	A: I totally stop working on #!os (which basically only I have the tools to work on atm) and do this all myself and then I don't have a working/secure smartphone
2018-12-18 02:53:20	lrvick	B: I continue working on #!os and guide someone else into learning a new highly marketable skill to help iterate #!
2018-12-18 02:53:48	lrvick	I want to learn new things too, #!os is me learning new things, but I'll also spend time to teach other people things I know how to do, like k8s
2018-12-18 02:53:50	ryan	well i think #! is going to wait for you to finish with #!os because i really doubt any of us are ready for that
2018-12-18 02:54:13	lrvick	but I do infra stuff all day for work, so that is not a project I am going to learn anything from.
2018-12-18 02:55:04	lrvick	but I am happy to invest in teaching others, and in turn those others can reap the benefits of learning how to maintain modern immutable infrastructure.
2018-12-18 02:55:14	lrvick	and further their careers, etc.
2018-12-18 02:55:31	ryan	if you can find someone up for it, feel free, but i definitely don't expect that to come anytime soon
2018-12-18 02:55:54	lrvick	dgrove: has been trying, and I'll continue helping him push forward as he has cycles.
2018-12-18 02:56:08	lrvick	once one service is up, it will serve as a guide
2018-12-18 02:56:20	lrvick	and others can more quickly copy/paste their way through more services.
2018-12-18 02:56:35	ryan	ALSO IF MY FUCKING WIFI COULD START WORKING THAT WOULD BE GREAT
2018-12-18 02:56:46	ryan	i saw a Cox van nearby recently
2018-12-18 02:56:51	ryan	i have no doubt they fucked up something
2018-12-18 02:59:14	lrvick	Anyway. Currently there is no solution on planet earth for people that want secure backdoor-free smartphones.
2018-12-18 02:59:27	lrvick	I have a short path to fix that, so I am taking it, to solve my own problem.
2018-12-18 02:59:41	lrvick	probably get that automated fully by end of christmas break
2018-12-18 03:00:05	lrvick	then worst case if someone has not stepped up to help with k8s, I'll at least move the first service and document the fuck out of it as an example
2018-12-18 03:00:10	lrvick	so others can follow along easier
2018-12-18 03:08:00	daurnimator	I wish I could help but don't have time.... I do think I'd need to pair with lrvick on the k8s stuff for 30 mins to get up to speed
2018-12-18 03:08:09	daurnimator	last time I had time for that .... lrvick didn';t
2018-12-18 03:31:45	lrvick	daurnimator: my hope is I'll put together from 0-to-production docs for one service, others will be able to use that as a reference for other things
2018-12-18 03:31:54	lrvick	then again, that was the point of the mastodon-helm project
2018-12-18 03:33:11	ryan	isn't mastodon very resource heavy?
2018-12-18 03:34:18	daurnimator	ryan: so?
2018-12-18 03:35:50	ryan	so it's not something i could test locally?
2018-12-18 03:36:22	daurnimator	are you on a potato?
2018-12-18 03:36:37	ryan	yes
2018-12-18 03:37:26	ryan	sorry for being poor
2018-12-18 04:12:26	lrvick	ryan: A better idea is working with something you are already familiar with
2018-12-18 04:12:35	lrvick	and seeing how that works in kubernetes land
2018-12-18 04:12:39	lrvick	and something low resource
2018-12-18 04:12:53	lrvick	I submit : https://github.com/lrvick/weechat-helm
2018-12-18 04:12:54	--	Notice([]): l​rvick: Title "GitHub - lrvick/weechat-helm: Helm chart for deploying weechat with access via ssh and relay" Shortened < https://is.gd/cpSq7w >
2018-12-18 04:13:24	lrvick	This runs a container that boots up to an ssh daemon that drops you into a weechat session.
2018-12-18 04:13:33	lrvick	also supports upgrades and persistent volumes
2018-12-18 04:13:53	lrvick	With this sort of setup, you do not need to modify a host system, know what the host system is a thing, or give a shit about coreos vs debian or ansible
2018-12-18 04:14:01	lrvick	helm has you 100% covered if you use it right
2018-12-18 04:14:39	lrvick	The container has a tiny init system that does nothing but keep tmux/weechat running and an sshd process to access it.
2018-12-18 04:15:01	lrvick	This setup, imo, is how we should run all #! services.
2018-12-18 04:15:15	lrvick	and then they are totally portable to run local, remote, whereever
2018-12-18 04:15:30	lrvick	I also documented every little command to set it up
2018-12-18 04:15:32	lrvick	:)
2018-12-18 04:40:22	knight	I can help...
2018-12-18 04:40:28	knight	I think
2018-12-18 05:55:17	daurnimator	sigh. kubernetes is so frustrating
2018-12-18 06:17:46	daurnimator	https://media.giphy.com/media/l2JdU7e38RqzdlakU/giphy.gif
2018-12-18 06:17:47	--	Notice([]): d​aurnimator: Shortened < https://is.gd/ctZK1T >
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2018-12-18 09:34:47	napcae	daurnimator: why?
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2018-12-18 15:26:55	dal	hi
2018-12-18 15:30:48	ryan	Greetings.
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2018-12-18 18:36:25	mayli	Hi there
2018-12-18 18:36:38	jesopo	greets
2018-12-18 18:38:36	mayli	ryan: does terraform support for loop?
2018-12-18 18:42:09	dch	Can someone tell me if I have this right:
2018-12-18 18:42:38	dch	"Serverless" code is just a bunch of code being run on demand?
2018-12-18 18:42:44	dch	hosted by a cloud provider or the like
2018-12-18 18:44:25	reynir	dch: Why do you need to get it right?
2018-12-18 18:45:38	dch	Because every time I think about "serverless" my brain hurts
2018-12-18 18:45:49	dch	there's gotta be a server somewhere, right? RIGHT?!
2018-12-18 18:45:52	reynir	Yea, it's not a good term
2018-12-18 18:46:15	ryan	mayli: numeric for only
2018-12-18 18:46:22	dch	"anonymous servers" to sound like "anonymous functions" wouldve been a cool name
2018-12-18 18:46:31	dch	That's what they sound like to me
2018-12-18 18:47:03	mayli	ryan: so is there a guide on how to "done in a loop iterating over a list, instead of as a repeated chunk"?
2018-12-18 18:47:09	ryan	It's serverless in the sense that instead of a webserver it's a function
2018-12-18 18:47:27	ryan	mayli: probably, let me get upstairs and I'll see if I can find one
2018-12-18 18:47:55	mayli	I didn't see any usage of that in the current .tf files
2018-12-18 18:47:57	dch	so Amazon run one function for me?
2018-12-18 18:48:04	mayli	dch: yep
2018-12-18 18:48:18	dch	Sounds pretty cool
2018-12-18 18:48:29	mayli	dch: previously, this is called cgi or shared hosting
2018-12-18 18:49:24	ryan	We went from CGI to WSGI back to CGI
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2018-12-18 19:02:50	ryan	alrighty i'm upstairs
2018-12-18 19:03:51	ryan	mayli: https://github.com/NotiCast/infra/blob/master/noticast_web.tf#L78-L95 is where i used it for a personal project
2018-12-18 19:03:52	--	Notice([]): r​yan: Title "infra/noticast_web.tf at master · NotiCast/infra · GitHub" Shortened < https://is.gd/qdFJdR >
2018-12-18 19:03:58	ryan	personal=>work
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2018-12-18 19:06:33	dgrove	ryan: did we get ssl certs working properly? 
2018-12-18 19:07:08	ryan	they're technically installed but no i didn't get to fixing your mv-instead-of-cp, or redoing it entirely
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2018-12-18 19:18:56	aisockets	hi
2018-12-18 19:19:04	aisockets	ssl is broken yo
2018-12-18 19:19:18	aisockets	also frient cant login :S
2018-12-18 19:20:06	KellerKatze	ryan: To be fair, the thing looks more like FastCGI, in that a single process/container can deal with very many requests (and can be frozen while there are no requests)
2018-12-18 19:20:36	ryan	aisockets: for hashbang.sh or for a subdomain?
2018-12-18 19:20:58	ryan	KellerKatze: right, that's more what i was going for, as that's really the only CGI setup I've actually used.
2018-12-18 19:20:58	aisockets	ryan: hashbang.sh
2018-12-18 19:21:05	aisockets	ryan: expired ssl
2018-12-18 19:21:20	aisockets	Expires On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 5:43:27 PM
2018-12-18 19:21:26	aisockets	:)
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2018-12-18 21:43:39	KellerKatze	I went and fixed the cert-acquisition script; of course, now the site doesn't come up because it can't connect to LDAP because that cert is broken too
2018-12-18 21:45:46	KellerKatze	I love fixing the same issue a bazilion times because there is no working automation for those boxes
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2018-12-18 22:24:55	KellerKatze	ryan: Are you around?
2018-12-18 22:25:15	ryan	Not available to help but I am on phone
2018-12-18 22:27:35	KellerKatze	ryan: OK; I'm failing to figure out why ~/ldap-ssl/ isn't being mounted to /etc/ldap/ssl in the slapd container; as long as that's broken, everything that relies on LDAP will be broken, and TBH I'm 1) out of ideas  2) entirely unwilling to put up with anymore of that bullshit
2018-12-18 22:28:36	 *	KellerKatze already fixed the cert.sh script so that cert acquisition works, and the docker-slapd.service unit file, but clearly something is still wrong
2018-12-18 22:30:04	ryan	I think you have to extract the key from LE to something that LDAP can use?
2018-12-18 22:30:45	ryan	Which does mean mutating the volume by hand
2018-12-18 22:37:08	KellerKatze	ryan: Yeah, looks like all the directories in the homedir are obsolete lies
2018-12-18 22:37:37	 *	KellerKatze is so done with that crap
2018-12-18 23:04:59	dgrove	 Python server killing itself on #!.sh website
2018-12-18 23:05:06	dgrove	ryan, KellerKatze: Any ideas/
2018-12-18 23:05:08	dgrove	?*
2018-12-18 23:05:25	KellerKatze	dgrove: Yes, it's because it can't connect to LDAP
2018-12-18 23:05:27	KellerKatze	See above
2018-12-18 23:05:56	dgrove	ah, look at that
2018-12-18 23:06:02	dgrove	apparently you and i both thought about this
2018-12-18 23:06:06	dgrove	Time to SSH into ldap?
2018-12-18 23:12:13	KellerKatze	dgrove: What the fuck do you think I've been doing?
2018-12-18 23:12:16	KellerKatze	Also, fixed
2018-12-18 23:12:53	dgrove	Exactly that
2018-12-18 23:13:06	dgrove	because i ssh'd in and saw someone touched something recently. 
2018-12-18 23:13:11	dgrove	so i backed of
2018-12-18 23:13:13	dgrove	off*
2018-12-18 23:13:20	dgrove	Thanks for fixing that stuff :D
2018-12-18 23:13:22	dgrove	<3
2018-12-18 23:15:02	dgrove	Just a note, you'll need to copy and rename the files from the letsencrypt folder into hashbang.sh/certs/
2018-12-18 23:15:10	dgrove	Sine we don't have symlinks -_-
2018-12-18 23:15:21	dgrove	or symlink them if you can
2018-12-18 23:16:55	KellerKatze	dgrove: The letsencrypt folder and the rest are one big lie, on ldap.hashbang.sh; lrvick made it use docker volumes instead, and didn't document anywhere how to copy the certs around
2018-12-18 23:17:08	KellerKatze	Nevermind that it shouldn't be necessary at all
2018-12-18 23:17:42	KellerKatze	but I'm both tired and pissed off, so I have 0 interest in cleaning up his messes again
2018-12-18 23:18:07	lrvick	KellerKatze: for the 5thtime i documented it
2018-12-18 23:18:12	lrvick	go read the readme
2018-12-18 23:18:13	KellerKatze	dgrove: If you feel like doing a thing, www.hashbang.sh also needs to be convinced to use the right certificate files
2018-12-18 23:18:26	dgrove	I'm in there right meow
2018-12-18 23:18:32	lrvick	I could not make it simpler
2018-12-18 23:18:41	dgrove	Let me see what havoc i can reek 
2018-12-18 23:18:46	dgrove	lrvick not right now
2018-12-18 23:18:58	KellerKatze	lrvick: Except that the instructions in the read me don't work
2018-12-18 23:19:51	KellerKatze	because the volume that gets mounted in /etc/ldap/ssl definitely doesn't have the required files at the root, out-of-the-box
2018-12-18 23:19:54	lrvick	KellerKatze: what does not work? you literally run letsencrypt one liner, get cert, move to folder
2018-12-18 23:20:05	lrvick	it is -easier- than teh way we used to do it with globalsign
2018-12-18 23:20:16	lrvick	stop throwing me under the bus for this. i got us back online
2018-12-18 23:20:48	lrvick	and I documented the painfully simple steps
2018-12-18 23:21:43	lrvick	also the globalsign method wa never documented at all
2018-12-18 23:22:30	lrvick	for a 2 hour getting-us-back-online-when-no-one-else-could-be-bothered fix, I stand my solution as stupidly easy and documented.
2018-12-18 23:22:47	lrvick	if everyone else could stop berating me for it, that would be cool
2018-12-18 23:23:36	lrvick	for people that don't know how docker works, I recommend google, but I included the basics.
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2018-12-18 23:26:07	dgrove	Fixed it
2018-12-18 23:26:44	 *	KellerKatze “fixed” it.
2018-12-18 23:28:15	dgrove	Yes, KellerKatze fixed it
2018-12-18 23:28:18	dgrove	thanks KellerKatze :D
2018-12-18 23:28:35	dgrove	I got #!.sh certs not freaking out
2018-12-18 23:28:37	KellerKatze	dgrove: No, I meant I “fixed” having to listen to lrvick's defensive bullshit
2018-12-18 23:28:42	dgrove	KellerKatze: did all the hard work
2018-12-18 23:29:13	dgrove	He means well
2018-12-18 23:29:20	dgrove	He just can't people sometimes
2018-12-18 23:29:44	KellerKatze	This isn't a “can't people” kind of problem
2018-12-18 23:30:08	dgrove	My holiday break will be spent trying to helmify what i can
2018-12-18 23:30:12	dgrove	so we don't have this problem anymore
2018-12-18 23:30:20	dgrove	k8s on DO is in beta and I think we're in it now
2018-12-18 23:30:29	KellerKatze	This is a “I can't admit there are massive, glaring issues in the thing I rolled out, and that it broke horribly the first time the certs needed rolling over”
2018-12-18 23:30:46	KellerKatze	I really, really hope he doesn't get to push that bullshit to prod at work, for your sake
2018-12-18 23:31:17	dgrove	We
2018-12-18 23:31:31	dgrove	We're dealing with other issues at work
2018-12-18 23:31:42	dgrove	But helm has been a big push here
2018-12-18 23:32:18	dgrove	KellerKatze: if you banned him can you unban him
2018-12-18 23:32:39	KellerKatze	dgrove: No, I'd like some peace and quite and a decisive lack of bullshit
2018-12-18 23:32:47	KellerKatze	And yes, I gzlined his IP
2018-12-18 23:33:47	dgrove	Just mute him on your side
2018-12-18 23:34:04	dgrove	gzlining is a bit much
2018-12-18 23:36:16	KellerKatze	Probably
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2018-12-18 23:40:24	KellerFuchs	dgrove: Looks like he has nothing pettier to do than su-ing as me and killing me IRC lcient
2018-12-18 23:40:41	dgrove	Ugh
2018-12-18 23:40:45	dgrove	come on guys
2018-12-18 23:40:53	dgrove	gals and furpeople
2018-12-18 23:40:55	dgrove	play nice
2018-12-18 23:41:15	KellerFuchs	I... don't feel less enclined to remove his time out, to be honest?
2018-12-18 23:41:40	KellerFuchs	Moreover, it's not as if you or him didn't have the necessary access to remove it, or if it wasn't temporary?
2018-12-18 23:41:55	KellerFuchs	s/less enclined/more enclined/
2018-12-18 23:42:22	KellerFuchs	Like, I've pushed back plenty of times on his bullshit, and I just will not take it anymore.
2018-12-18 23:43:04	KellerFuchs	If you want to help him reconnect, feel free, but I'm less than interested in doing anything on IRC anymore tonight
2018-12-18 23:43:31	dgrove	I _think_ i did that correct
2018-12-18 23:43:39	 *	dgrove doesn't know shit about some of these oper commands
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2018-12-18 23:45:42	KellerFuchs	dgrove: Nope, I did
2018-12-18 23:46:47	dgrove	Thanks KellerFuchs can you send me that command so i have it for future stuff
2018-12-18 23:47:16	lrvick	can you unban my primary client. kthx
2018-12-18 23:48:42	dgrove	it's fixed lrvick 
2018-12-18 23:48:55	lrvick	it isnt
2018-12-18 23:50:42	lrvick	KellerFuchs: now
2018-12-18 23:51:06	lrvick	don't make this nuclear please
2018-12-18 23:51:39	dgrove	how do i do this lrvick 
2018-12-18 23:51:51	dgrove	gzline -*@yourip ?
2018-12-18 23:58:12	dgrove	trying to help here lrvick 
2018-12-18 23:59:01	KellerFuchs	dgrove: For future reference, it's /gline, and it seems I had missed the IP-based ban (but did remove the nick-based one the first time around, otherwise lrvick would have failed to connect from elsewhere)
2018-12-18 23:59:17	 *	KellerFuchs just came back to find some fairly ridiculous privmsg
2018-12-18 23:59:33	KellerFuchs	lrvick: “never ever fucking do that again. [...] dont abuse your ops privilege. that is a war none of us win.”
2018-12-18 23:59:36	dgrove	weechat wasn't passing along unknown commands
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2018-12-19 00:00:13	KellerFuchs	You mean the way you abused your privilege to su as me, or the way you used it to ignore all pushback I ever gave you on your behaviour being utterly unacceptable?
2018-12-19 00:00:18	stinethebean	KellerFuchs: to be fair, that is abusing your ops privilege. 
2018-12-19 00:00:28	KellerFuchs	Nice to know you will throw that big of a tantrum on a 6h timeout
2018-12-19 00:00:36	dgrove	KellerFuchs please don't keep this going
2018-12-19 00:01:05	stinethebean	KellerFuchs: i said it in social but i will say it here too, by banning him you remove the ability for him and i to communicate easily.
2018-12-19 00:01:15	KellerFuchs	dgrove: Why?  “Please stop answering” is leave to let him say anything he wants
2018-12-19 00:01:19	daurnimator	Why are we war-ring today?
2018-12-19 00:01:29	stinethebean	same thing as yesterday i think? 
2018-12-19 00:01:29	KellerFuchs	stinethebean: I couldn't see that message, lrvick had killed my IRC client
2018-12-19 00:01:44	lrvick1	instead of having a discussion like an adult, my words offened you and you banned me from the server. the only reason the irc server has a cert at all is because I put a cert there, and you constantly berate me for it.
2018-12-19 00:01:52	stinethebean	KellerFuchs: that's why i said it again. i'd appreciate if you didn't cut off my ability to talk to my husband. 
2018-12-19 00:01:52	lrvick1	if you want it done better, do it better
2018-12-19 00:02:03	dgrove	Everyone stop
2018-12-19 00:02:04	KellerFuchs	daurnimator: lrvick being a defensive dipshit about things, and unwilling to admint there are issues with a thing he deployed.
2018-12-19 00:02:11	dgrove	Let's cool off
2018-12-19 00:02:26	stinethebean	seriously. take a chill pill. 
2018-12-19 00:03:37	lrvick1	KellerFuchs: if you could of done somethibng better in 2 hours, great. else we can talk about the future, instead of berating me for stop-gaps i did when I was in the middle of work. sorry for not automating everything to your standards on my first go around when everything was on fire
2018-12-19 00:04:17	lrvick1	no one else wanted to do anything, globalsign was not responding, we were down for -days- so I stepped in and set up a simple 2 line letsencrypt
2018-12-19 00:04:24	lrvick1	tell me why that choice was wrong, or stfu
2018-12-19 00:05:10	lrvick1	the steps I documented -did- work but dgrove also trying to move fast, fubared one line
2018-12-19 00:05:14	lrvick1	and i dont care
2018-12-19 00:05:21	lrvick1	he helped. it is no big deal
2018-12-19 00:05:22	dgrove	lrvick1: stop
2018-12-19 00:05:25	dgrove	please stop
2018-12-19 00:05:27	dgrove	just stop
2018-12-19 00:05:32	dgrove	this isn't a winning battle
2018-12-19 00:05:39	dgrove	KellerFuchs: cool off too
2018-12-19 00:05:45	dgrove	everyone chill the fuck out
2018-12-19 00:06:09	daurnimator	you talking about irc or ldap?
2018-12-19 00:06:18	daurnimator	brb. kswapd0 is churning on here again.
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2018-12-19 00:07:50	lrvick1	I have a right to be frustrated for people berating me for fixing certs in a way that is not as automated as they would when the people complaining are unwilling to do it better. I have a right to defend myself without being banned from the server.
2018-12-19 00:08:07	lrvick1	I wont fix certs this time
2018-12-19 00:08:18	lrvick1	someone else can do it in the perfect automated way they want to.
2018-12-19 00:09:11	lrvick1	(even though the globalsign solution keller did was never automated or documented)
2018-12-19 00:09:30	 *	lrvick1 bbls
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2018-12-19 00:10:57	dgrove	Lance, this conversation is over
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2018-12-19 00:11:09	KellerFuchs	dgrove: I love how I get talled to “cool off” when I'm not talking and lrvick is busy talking shit about me and misrepresenting everything I had a problem with
2018-12-19 00:11:29	daurnimator	okay I'm back. has anyone exploded in the mean time?
2018-12-19 00:11:52	KellerFuchs	dgrove: Also, you are wasting your time, he doesn't understand “stop”, which is exactly why I gave him a time-out earlier.
2018-12-19 00:12:12	 *	KellerFuchs is tired of pushing back on the bullshit behaviour and being ignored.
2018-12-19 00:12:45	lrvick1	so my view is invalid and must be silenced instead of understood or corrected. cool.
2018-12-19 00:13:01	daurnimator	how do I ssh to the irc server(s)?
2018-12-19 00:13:17	lrvick1	daurnimator: ssh core@irc.hashbang.sh
2018-12-19 00:13:21	dgrove	Yeah
2018-12-19 00:13:22	daurnimator	ah. core@
2018-12-19 00:13:31	dgrove	It's in the docs ;)
2018-12-19 00:13:40	lrvick1	you can see how certs are setup in the docker volume. letsencrypt one liner will give you a new cert
2018-12-19 00:13:43	daurnimator	dgrove: where does one find the docs?
2018-12-19 00:13:47	lrvick1	drop off in folder. reload and done
2018-12-19 00:13:51	dgrove	Let me find it
2018-12-19 00:13:59	daurnimator	ugh. docker. will decipher
2018-12-19 00:14:24	KellerFuchs	daurnimator: You don't, according to lance I never document anything.
2018-12-19 00:14:44	stinethebean	stop arguing, my goodness. 
2018-12-19 00:14:51	stinethebean	work together like good little humans. 
2018-12-19 00:14:53	daurnimator	IMO sensible observable systems are better than docs
2018-12-19 00:15:02	lrvick1	thank you!
2018-12-19 00:15:13	lrvick1	daurnimator: systemctl cat will tell you everything you need to know
2018-12-19 00:15:32	lrvick1	but the docs on how I approach this are here: https://github.com/hashbang/docker-slapd/tree/eb9243f9f39b61e475345a22819d0dcbaeef8439
2018-12-19 00:15:33	--	Notice([]): l​rvick1: Title "GitHub - hashbang/docker-slapd at eb9243f9f39b61e475345a22819d0dcbaeef8439" Shortened < https://is.gd/PEurwf >
2018-12-19 00:15:39	daurnimator	lrvick1: you mean  systemd-cgls?
2018-12-19 00:16:08	lrvick1	it is just a docker one liner with a volume. put certs in volume in path that unrealircd expects them and reload
2018-12-19 00:16:19	daurnimator	wait is it irc or ldap that is broken?
2018-12-19 00:16:21	dgrove	https://github.com/hashbang/admin-tools/blob/master/README.md#ssh-configuration
2018-12-19 00:16:25	dgrove	daurnimator: ^
2018-12-19 00:17:01	KellerFuchs	daurnimator: Don't worry, there's nothing about that bullshit that's sensible; and neither irc or ldap is broken, I fixed ldap; www.hashbang.sh needs a cert renewal though.
2018-12-19 00:18:22	lrvick1	KellerFuchs: cite specifically what is not sensible and do it better, or stop being hostile.
2018-12-19 00:18:32	lrvick1	you document lots of things but tls was not one of them.
2018-12-19 00:18:53	lrvick1	I jumped in and put out the fire. do it better or stfu abut it and lets move forward
2018-12-19 00:18:56	dgrove	lrvick1: FUCKING STOP
2018-12-19 00:19:21	dgrove	WE'RE MOVING PAST THIS
2018-12-19 00:19:23	dgrove	NOW
2018-12-19 00:19:27	dgrove	ALL OF US
2018-12-19 00:19:57	lrvick1	dgrove: KellerFuchs wants to say nothing about it is sensible but won't qualify that. this is not going to stop. it is going to come abck over and over again until people understand this is a doocracy. if you want something done better do it yourself.
2018-12-19 00:20:05	daurnimator	lrvick1: please STFU..
2018-12-19 00:20:09	lrvick1	don't put down people that got stuff working
2018-12-19 00:20:37	lrvick1	I am done I wont make the mistake of helping again.
2018-12-19 00:20:58	daurnimator	lrvick1: it's not the actions that you need to stop, it's the current rant.
2018-12-19 00:20:59	lrvick1	nothing I do is sensible
2018-12-19 00:21:18	dgrove	we're past this now
2018-12-19 00:21:22	--	lrvick1 is now known as lrvick
2018-12-19 00:21:37	lrvick	clearly KellerFuchs is not who took a shot at me again.
2018-12-19 00:22:05	lrvick	but whatever take all the shots you want. I am done defending myself
2018-12-19 00:22:16	lrvick	I got us back online. be mad about that if you want.
2018-12-19 00:22:29	daurnimator	aren't we still down?
2018-12-19 00:22:43	lrvick	we are this time. I got us back online last time. I refuse to do it this time.
2018-12-19 00:22:47	daurnimator	hashbang.sh:443 isn't running. I'm looking at the logs now and it says unsupported protocol
2018-12-19 00:22:55	lrvick	because everyone is berating me for how I fixed it last time
2018-12-19 00:22:58	ryan	LDAP certs are dead
2018-12-19 00:23:03	lrvick	which was literally a letsencrypt one liner
2018-12-19 00:23:10	lrvick	I could not make it any easier
2018-12-19 00:23:33	lrvick	I'll help someone else do it. I wont do it myself again.
2018-12-19 00:23:47	dgrove	ldap was just fixed
2018-12-19 00:23:51	dgrove	ryan
2018-12-19 00:23:51	KellerFuchs	ryan: $ ldapsearch -H 'ldaps://ldap.hashbang.sh' -b 'ou=People,dc=hashbang,dc=sh' 'uid=kellerfuchs' -x says no
2018-12-19 00:24:20	lrvick	new systems use docker volumes. old systems use bind mounts.
2018-12-19 00:24:28	lrvick	bind mounts dont work in new docker
2018-12-19 00:24:32	lrvick	they are deprecated
2018-12-19 00:24:39	lrvick	so I was forced to use volumes properly on new boxes
2018-12-19 00:24:46	lrvick	I had no choice, for the record
2018-12-19 00:24:55	dgrove	Okay
2018-12-19 00:24:59	dgrove	thanks for explaining lrvick 
2018-12-19 00:25:29	lrvick	we should be using volumes everywhere if anyone has time to fix a machine, so we are upgrade safe
2018-12-19 00:25:42	daurnimator	I thought the intention was to move to k8s
2018-12-19 00:26:02	lrvick	it is, but everyone wants the current setup 100% automated before we move to that
2018-12-19 00:26:04	daurnimator	waste of time messing around with the old infra
2018-12-19 00:26:05	dgrove	That's the intention
2018-12-19 00:26:13	lrvick	daurnimator: that is my argument
2018-12-19 00:26:55	lrvick	i say fuck the old infra. put bandaid certs on it and focus any energy on new systems
2018-12-19 00:27:04	lrvick	but that is exactly why people are mad at me
2018-12-19 00:27:10	daurnimator	sounds fine to me
2018-12-19 00:27:38	daurnimator	however it doesn't explain why the current hashbang.sh container doesn't seem to work
2018-12-19 00:27:44	daurnimator	that would remain an issue in k8s
2018-12-19 00:27:53	lrvick	good. you me and dgrove are on the same page. everyone else will catch up with the new infra when we are done migrating and documenting
2018-12-19 00:28:23	dgrove	Then lets make this happen before the next cert refresh
2018-12-19 00:28:26	daurnimator	docker run  hashbang/hashbang.sh # this is only responding to http, not https.
2018-12-19 00:28:28	dgrove	lrvick: daurnimator 
2018-12-19 00:28:55	dgrove	daurnimator: .....shiiiiiiiiiittttttt....
2018-12-19 00:29:07	daurnimator	dgrove: ?
2018-12-19 00:29:24	dgrove	I thought https was working
2018-12-19 00:29:42	lrvick	it will only work https if it has a cert and if letsencrypt container is not listening on 443 still
2018-12-19 00:29:55	dgrove	That should be the case
2018-12-19 00:29:59	dgrove	Let me look
2018-12-19 00:30:16	lrvick	stupid simple flask script inside container
2018-12-19 00:30:18	daurnimator	k. /me heads back to work
2018-12-19 00:30:21	lrvick	easy to debug
2018-12-19 00:31:27	lrvick	I can try to fix it tonight. I'll just ignore anyone that whines about me fixing it. in the end I want our services working and stable
2018-12-19 00:31:48	lrvick	it should be straight forward to debug though
2018-12-19 00:31:52	daurnimator	I assume from dgrove's comment that he is taking ownership of it for the next X minutes.
2018-12-19 00:32:04	lrvick	yeah I am taking a lock tonight worst case
2018-12-19 00:33:17	lrvick	I am more interested in training others how to debug cert issues and upgrade certs though.
2018-12-19 00:33:49	lrvick	I think my time is probably best spent training people so we have more admins that know how to handle this sort of thing.
2018-12-19 00:34:13	lrvick	anywho dgrove if you get stuck lmk. heading out for a while
2018-12-19 00:34:40	dgrove	lrvick: you coming to work thing?
2018-12-19 00:37:11	dgrove	fixked
2018-12-19 00:37:13	dgrove	fixed*
2018-12-19 00:37:22	dgrove	i symlinked, docker was like wtf you talking about
2018-12-19 00:37:44	dgrove	actually copying the files fixed it for now
2018-12-19 00:41:35	lrvick	yep.
2018-12-19 00:42:33	lrvick	it really is not that hard.
2018-12-19 00:42:53	lrvick	thanks for taking the reins and getting it done.
2018-12-19 00:43:06	lrvick	I am now not the only one that can do it. woo.
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2018-12-19 04:05:58	dgrove	Thanks KellerFuchs for getting ldap back up
2018-12-19 04:13:56	meiguro	hashbang has ldap?
2018-12-19 04:41:04	ryan	meiguro: barely working, but yes :p
2018-12-19 04:41:35	meiguro	what sort of ldapy things can we do now
2018-12-19 04:41:36	ryan	we're moving from LDAP to userdb, a custom postgresql schema, which *might* have an LDAP interface sometime into the future
2018-12-19 04:41:50	ryan	as of right now you can technically read LDAP information from users
2018-12-19 04:42:01	meiguro	oh now we're talking
2018-12-19 04:42:02	ryan	and using identd you can match incoming connections from #! to an LDAP account
2018-12-19 04:42:39	ryan	so you could say, "hey i have a user on port XXX, who is that", then our servers say "oh that's ryan, by the way they're in LDAP so if you query that you can get more info"
2018-12-19 04:42:54	ryan	then they query LDAP, LDAP sends back the results for user ryan, and then you have authentication information
2018-12-19 04:43:00	ryan	that's how I'd design something, at least
2018-12-19 05:03:06	knight	is the weechat correction builtin?
2018-12-19 05:07:16	lrvick	correction?
2018-12-19 05:08:51	knight	 s/foo/bar
2018-12-19 05:12:21	ryan	it's a script
2018-12-19 05:12:26	ryan	apply_corrections.py
2018-12-19 05:14:02	knight	oh, done by you guys?
2018-12-19 05:14:31	ryan	i made the decision to add it by default IIRC but we didn't write it
2018-12-19 05:15:24	knight	oh, well clever decision :)
2018-12-19 06:06:07	dgrove	apply_corrections.py?
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2018-12-19 14:22:31	ryan	dgrove: it's a sed bot, basically if you type a sed pattern into chat it'll apply it to your last message
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2018-12-19 17:51:22	reynir	s/ /this i annoying/
2018-12-19 17:52:42	ryan	you can disable or remove it, just like any other script
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2018-12-19 19:44:36	KellerFuchs	dgrove: You are welcome
2018-12-19 19:48:53	KellerFuchs	meiguro: Yes, LDAP is how we currently manage all user-related metadata (uid, groups, which shell server mail is delivered to, SSH pubkeys, login shell, ...)
2018-12-19 22:04:46	mayli	wtf on debian mirror: https://mirror-master.debian.org/status/mirror-info/debian.gtisc.gatech.edu.html
2018-12-19 22:34:01	napcae	lol
2018-12-19 22:34:30	napcae	It's not DNS
2018-12-19 22:34:31	napcae	There's no way it's DNS
2018-12-19 22:34:35	napcae	It was DNS
2018-12-19 22:42:30	--	Notice(github): [admin-tools] KellerFuchs force-pushed board-members-email from 50bb247 to 43dc094: https://git.io/fpGIX
2018-12-19 22:42:30	--	Notice(github): admin-tools/board-members-email a591175 Danny Grove: Add board@ alias, add missing emails for board members
2018-12-19 22:42:30	--	Notice(github): admin-tools/board-members-email 43dc094 Danny Grove: users: Rename group `board_members` to `board`
2018-12-19 22:53:34	KellerFuchs	mayli: Just use deb.debian.org?  O:3
2018-12-19 23:01:39	--	Notice(github): [admin-tools] KellerFuchs opened pull request #149: Cleanup vault.yml (master...vault-lint) https://git.io/fheeb
2018-12-19 23:12:58	lrvick	meiguro: a few of us designed a replacement for ldap though.
2018-12-19 23:13:12	lrvick	ldap is pretty awful to maintain, especially if you need to do things like stats and relations
2018-12-19 23:13:39	lrvick	it predates SQL etc
2018-12-19 23:14:21	lrvick	but all the unix user management systems that manage /etc/{groups,shadow,passwd} in a database expect ldap as a backend
2018-12-19 23:14:32	lrvick	for legacy reasons it has just not died and no one has made a robust replacement
2018-12-19 23:14:35	lrvick	so... we made one
2018-12-19 23:14:48	lrvick	and the very slow (as cycles allow) plan is to migrate everything to that.
2018-12-19 23:15:39	lrvick	but we have a few blockers to overcome first. Migrating everything we have in-place in the static server arrangement we have now (which was done long before sane container management systems existed) is not going to make upgrades easy
2018-12-19 23:17:12	lrvick	so we are working on making every bit of infra we have into "helm charts" which allow one to spin up namespaced versions of each part of our infra locally or remotely and swap between them with 0 downtime
2018-12-19 23:17:31	lrvick	and maintain namespaced experiments etc, without spinning up piles of VPSs and wasting piles of time.
2018-12-19 23:17:40	lrvick	it will allow anyone to do #! dev locally, without even having to be an admin
2018-12-19 23:18:04	lrvick	so this really lines up well with our teaching/learning ethos, and allows us to burn down the unmaintainable garbage we have today.
2018-12-19 23:18:43	lrvick	it will also save me a fair amount of money every month, as this mostly comes out of my pocket
2018-12-19 23:18:49	lrvick	by having > 1 service per system.
2018-12-19 23:30:17	mayli	KellerFuchs: thanks for the deb.debian.org, it's much faster. i've seen the debian:9 docker image using it, but i got ftp.us after manual install :/
2018-12-19 23:33:31	KellerFuchs	Yeah, it annoys me that d-i doesn't default to deb.d.o
2018-12-19 23:34:24	KellerFuchs	FYI, deb.d.o uses Fastly and Cloudfront CDNs, but at least it's well maintained, fast, reliable, and available over HTTPS
2018-12-19 23:35:41	mayli	$ lslogins |wc -l
2018-12-19 23:35:43	mayli	198
2018-12-19 23:36:21	mayli	not a big fan of deb over https, but it's faster and stable that other mirrors
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2018-12-19 23:37:10	lrvick	deb over HTTPs is non zero value.
2018-12-19 23:37:28	lrvick	less chance an attacker can deliver a malicious payload that can exploit the signature verification code or something
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2018-12-19 23:37:42	lrvick	but it is ... pretty limited attack surface
2018-12-19 23:38:23	lrvick	malicious mirrors can also serve old versions of a package. signatures don't expire.
2018-12-19 23:38:52	lrvick	so a MITM mirror could show you one thing and serve you an old signed package perhaps without you noticing.
2018-12-19 23:38:57	mayli	benefit / cost ~= 0
2018-12-19 23:39:16	lrvick	downgrade attacks are a more likely abuse here
2018-12-19 23:39:28	lrvick	if debian used something like TUF this would be a non issue
2018-12-19 23:39:43	lrvick	what debian does do on official mirrors is pulls copies of old vulnerable packages
2018-12-19 23:39:56	lrvick	but a MITM could just put those files back
2018-12-19 23:40:05	mayli	btw, https://github.com/hashbang/admin-tools/pull/148
2018-12-19 23:40:12	lrvick	and your client with old apt cache asking for them, could actually work.
2018-12-19 23:40:50	mayli	it seems there is no easy way to iterating over a list without ugly hack, can we fix the wildcard domain thing with copy paste?
2018-12-19 23:40:50	lrvick	so really, I think all trusted mirrors should be HTTPS and perhaps apt should check multiple sources for confirmation on what the latest package version is.
